LONG - Rehome? Euthanize? Need Advice.

[Azarbrook]

This is a painful post to write. I'm sure I'll get all sorts of input from this - I'm hoping.
My husband and I bought a 4 year old female boxer (from a breeder) who is now 6 - we love her and she is basically our child. She is a retired champion and the most well trained dog when it comes to obedience with us and on the leash (when there's no dogs around).

Here are the problems:

Within a couple weeks of having her, she bit my sisters face as she bent down to pet her (she had met my sister once before) leaving a small puncture scar on her cheek. We were shocked and upset. I spoke with the breeder who she lived with before us and she assured me this had never happened before. From this point we were more cautious with her, trying to introduce everyone to her properly.

Then over the next year or so we tried to manage her aggression toward other dogs. Previous owner also assured me this was not normal. It was brutal "discovering" this was a problem - she was playing with me in an offleash park and saw a little white dog with her owner jogging by at least 200 feet away and booked it for the dog - she didn't seem to have bit it but dove on it like she was going to kill it. Then my husband was walking her and she bit a neighbors dog on the back of it's neck while it was walking past her, he had to pry her off. No growling, just went for the dog. Any dog coming toward her she will stalk - we try to apply the methods we were given by local trainers/behaviourists - we need to be on it constantly since we live in a city that is swarming with dogs, and we live in an apartment with lots of kids and dogs walking up and down the stairs all the time.

So about a week ago I was camping with family and friends and she was sitting beside me on a leash chewing on a stick. A friend came over to say hi to her (that had met her) leaned down over her and she jumped up and bit him and sat back down. We were all shocked. His nose was bleeding and he had two scrapes down his cheeks. I was sick to my stomach. My initial reaction was 'we need to put her down'. My husband initially agreed, but now feels that we just need to keep her away from people and manage it ourselves. I love our dog dearly, but I'm terrified to walk her now. I feel negligent walking her around people who have no idea to stay away from her, stressed out living in an apartment building where she has to pass people daily, I just can't see how this is going to work.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I need unbiased advice.

 

[LILYLARUE]

Do you know what type of breeder this was? Sounds to me like a poor breeder dog that never got out of her crate to experience things in everyday life and she reacts to being startled, excited, or sees something out of her normal and she reacts very negatively to it. If she was a backyard bred dog, bred only for profit, she may never have received the proper socialization that a dog needs to be a well rounded, non-reactive dog.

Firstly, have you had her examined for any issues that may cause her pain? Have you had a full panel blood test done to see if her numbers are in normal range? There are illnesses that can cause aggression, let alone, pain can absolutely cause aggression.

Secondly, find a top-notch behaviorist to asses her. This may not be a case of aggression, but fearful reactivity. You really want to find out. If it is a true case of aggression, you have to do what you feel comfortable with, and that may not be the easiest. Since she has a bite history now, you won't find a rescue that is willing or has the resources to rehab and retrain her, nor do they want to take on that liability.

If it is a case of fearfullness, that can be overcome with diligent and continual training. You have to be confident enough and 100% willing to put the work in to help her become a more socialized and accepting dog.

Only a behaviorist can asses and suggest a route. A typical trainer, though some are awesome and hard to find, are not experienced enough or educated in canine behaviors to help. They may begin a training program that will do her more harm than good.

 

[LILYLARUE]

Sorry, hit enter before I could finish editing. Ooopsies!

Secondly, find a top-notch behaviorist to asses her. This may not be a case of aggression, but fearful reactivity. You really want to find out. If it is a true case of aggression, you have to do what you feel comfortable with, and that may not be the easiest. Since she has a bite history now, you probably won't find a rescue that is willing or has the resources to rehab and retrain her, nor do they want to take on that liability. There are a few that take on difficult cases, but often the dog ends up in sanctuary - which I have mixed feelings about a dog living the rest of their lives in a kennel with little to no socialization or human interaction. Some are amazing places, but too many stories of late where it just isn't a place they claim to be.

If it is a case of fearfullness, that can be overcome with diligent and continual training. You have to be confident enough and 100% willing to put the work in to help her become a more socialized and accepting dog.

Only a behaviorist can asses and suggest a route. A typical trainer, though some are awesome and hard to find, are not experienced enough or educated in canine behaviors to help. They may begin a training program that will do her more harm than good. So if you really want to save her, find a great behaviorist and they will work with your vet to help her overcome her issues. But if you are afraid of her, and the trust isn't there between you, then you won't be confident enough to follow through with the tough training road ahead of you.

Until you find the behaviorist though, she should absolutely be on leash outside at all times, and muzzled. This is for your protection and others. You have witnessed her reacting and causing people harm, so don't risk it ever again until you find help.

To find a behaviorist in your area, call local breed specific rescues (boxer, dobie, rottie, pitties) any bully breed rescue. They may have a behaviorist they use for their own bullies. And by bully, I mean any breed that is classified as a bully breed that has the propensity of being aggressive and do harm to humans. And yes, those little bostons and frenchies are on the list as a bully breed. You really want to find a behaviorist that will discuss the blood test and physical exam results to conclude a plan of action, which may possibly include medication that will allow her brain to stop being hyper-vigiliant.

If you choose to turn her over to a shelter, just be prepared for her to be put down. This is not because they are heartless, but because there are so many other good dogs in need of a home, she will be sacrificed to keep a kennel open for one of the "good" ones.

To share a short story: I had a pit bull foster who came from a very damaged background. I worked on rehabbing him and he was adopted by a couple who had experience with bullies, as they had an Am Bulldog already. He had issues and they were prepared to work on them. I suggested they see a well reknowned behaviorist that was only 1 hr from their home. They chose to use a local "commercial training company" who taught them to use "questionable" techniques with him. Well, they called me because he bit the wife in the face as she bent down with his dinner bowl. He started to attack other dogs, aggressed at people and became totally unpredictable. I had to make the decision to drive 2 hours to pick him up, take him to the shelter and have him euthanized. This killed me! If they would have taken my advise and saw the behaviorist, which I knew he needed and could have been rehabbed, this decision wouldn't have had to be made. One thing I was happy about is that he had his only advocate by his side when he went to sleep. I knew he was once a dog that had the potential to be an embassador of his breed, but with the wrong training and trainer, he became an unpredictable, dangerous dog at no fault of his own.

Do what is the best for you and your family. If you can afford a behaviorist and want to spend time on her, then please give her a chance. If you can't find it in yourself, because of your lack of trust or confidence, then please be the one there for her at her last breath.

 

[Azarbrook]

Background

Thank you for your reply - I really appreciate hearing from other experienced boxer lovers right now.

She was definitely not from a "backyard breeder" - we have all her champion papers and show history from the CKC - but I do believe this is actually part of the problem. I've found that many handlers/breeders won't socialize dogs while they're showing to reduce the risk of damage to the dog - I understand this, but unfortunately it creates a somewhat unsocialized dog.

For her medical history, she has had chronic UTIs in the last 6 mos. which has led to endless tests (bloodwork, ultrasounds, x-rays etc.). Recently she needed a MTC removed on her ear - the oncologist report says she still has cancerous tissue in the area. Probably unnecessary info, but I feel confident it's not a health issue affecting her temperament - I would love it if it was, I know that probably sounds weird, but it's probably an easier solution...

I have a muzzle on her while walking her since the last incident. I am not afraid of the costs of a good behaviourist - but I feel skeptical that we can change her. These are isolated incidents with people, but in general she gives people the stare if they approach me which makes me think it could have happened more than it has - not every person, but definitely men and anyone that gets close to me (she does this a lot less with my husband). I worry that I'm too scared of "what-ifs" while walking her that I can't be the confident caesar she needs. But maybe a good behaviourist good help me change too.

 

[EAO76]

I had a people aggressive rescue boy for 5 years until he passed this May. He was so wonderful with us but not with strangers. We worked with a lot of trainers and even a veterinary behaviorist. He was also on prozac for more than a year. He made many strides but was never totally trust worthy. We rearranged our lives to accommodate his issues. He was crated (not a punishment...he loved his crate) when we had guests over and he was muzzled for vet visits, etc. I consider myself an experienced owner. I have been involved in rescue for many years and have had many dogs foster and personal in and out of our home but I could not totally change him. I will say that he responded FAR better to positive reinforcement and positive behavioral modification rather than to any "Cesar" type methods. So like Lisa said make sure you choose your professional wisely.

I don't agree with rehoming. Finding someone to take an aggressive dog is not going to happen...unless they are a hoarder or some other crazy person. Good homes for even well behaved dogs with no issues are hard enough to find...much less a good home for a dog with issues. Simply put people don't want to adopt a project. Think about it, you guys love her and don't even want to deal with her issues. How would you find an outsider that would be willing to take her on? So if you don't want to keep her and do whats necessary to keep other people and animals safe then I would humanely euthanize her. But with that being said I can tell you we LOVED our aggressive boy and although life with him was not always easy I am so glad we stuck it out with him... here is his Rainbow Bridge Post so you can see his story... http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/rainbow-bridge/162999-oh-trucker.html

PS how can a show dog be people or dog aggressive? They would need to accept judges in their face and stand right next to a other dogs in the show ring. I have never heard of a "champion" having a poor temperament...

 

[Cami]

In both instances where she bit humans you said they either - "bent down to pet her" or "leaned down over her". Both instances can be seen as these people invading her space. In a perfect world humans should be able to invade a dogs space without fearing repercussions from them but sadly this isn't a perfect world. I am not trying to give her a free pass by any means however these actions might help to explain some of her behavior. It isn't acceptable behavior at all but offers a little insight as to why it may have garnished the result you got.

It would seem you have multiple issues to address and there is no "one size fits all" type of training that will correct them all but.....they CAN be made better. You can learn what triggers her and work towards keeping her from those triggers (people leaning over her for example) all the while teaching her to react differently as well. It won't be an easy task nor a quickly solved one but I don't see her as a dog that needs to be euthanized. There are thousands of cases worse than you described and the dogs have been successfully rehabilitated.
It may be costly and time consuming. It WILL for sure require 100% commitment on your part (hubby too). There will be mishaps along the way and sometimes progress will seem extraordinarily slow. But is is possible.

I'd for sure rule out a medical issue. At her age she could be prime for a thyroid issue, early onset arthritis, etc....The list is endless. Even a chronic UTI can be disturbing enough to make even the nicest dog a bit cranky. If you haven't had a full thyroid panel done (not just "blood work" from your vet like you mentioned being done recently) it would be a good place to start. There are about 50 different thyroid symptoms and since you said she had a MCT removed you can add that to the list. Thyroid, allergies and MCT's go hand in hand.

It doesn't sound like either of you are ready to give up on her just yet. She may surprise you if given the chance.

 

[ELubas]

IPS how can a show dog be people or dog aggressive? They would need to accept judges in their face and stand right next to a other dogs in the show ring. I have never heard of a "champion" having a poor temperament...

My Nysa is dog aggressive, always was (from 9 weeks she was growling and snapping little s--t) , but we did obedience for years without incident. She knew she was working and she "worked". We only stopped when I knew she had a partial tear in her ACL so they can differentiate, and being in the ring is no guaruntee that they have the ideal temperment. Ny, however is great with people so I really sympathize with you there. Managing dog on dog aggression is one thing but with people it is so scary. I hope you can figure this out and i am sure you will do the right thing for all of you. In my thoughts...

 

[Azarbrook]

Thyroid

If you haven't had a full thyroid panel done (not just "blood work" from your vet like you mentioned being done recently) it would be a good place to start. There are about 50 different thyroid symptoms and since you said she had a MCT removed you can add that to the list. Thyroid, allergies and MCT's go hand in hand.
.

Thanks for your insight - I didn't know this was an entirely different test - I'll add it to my list

 

[Azarbrook]

Rehoming not an option

I don't agree with rehoming. Finding someone to take an aggressive dog is not going to happen...unless they are a hoarder or some other crazy person. Good homes for even well behaved dogs with no issues are hard enough to find...much less a good home for a dog with issues. Simply put people don't want to adopt a project. Think about it, you guys love her and don't even want to deal with her issues. How would you find an outsider that would be willing to take her on?

Yes, I completely agree with what you're saying - not to throw my DH under the bus, but this was one of his suggestions - I believe in an attempt to get me to drop the idea of putting her down. I don't like the idea of someone actually wanting a dog with her history - would she be a watch dog? or something else? Yeah, that won't happen. It's true too, if we can't make it work, how would someone else without the same love deal with her if she behaved badly with them.

I appreciate the feedback though, makes me feel confident about how I feel.

 

[Slobber]

If you are concerned with pain management, I'd like to suggest that you research Traumeel. It is holistic, human grade medication that doesn't have the nasty side effects that Aspirin can have. I feel like it is a well kept secret in the pet community and I found out about it through my rescue. I love it. My girl is on it for muscular pain and my male gets it for arthritis.

Keeping in mind a prior poster's observation of space intrusion, are you practicing NILIF? I personally feel that a dog who thinks it is his/her job to assume the dominant position in his/her pack is a stressed dog. Aggression and stress go hand in hand, IMO. Yes, your anxieties about her demeanor are probably adding to the problem and I don't mean that as any sort of a negative comment. As a matter of fact, I have been in a situation similar to yours and feel that I've learned much from it.