Jealousy of baby causing me to lose my babies

[JulieM]

Randi is absolutely right. This is a management issue. The dogs are food aggressive with each other, you know that and they have been before the baby came along. Therefore, they should not be allowed in the room when there is food. (Whether the baby is there or not.) For their own safety, as well as that of the child. If this is the only time they show aggression toward each other, management is half the battle. You also mentioned that when the fights occur, you reponded with "immediate correction." Corrections tend to increase aggression, so this is probably not the best course of action.

Jean Donaldson - author of The Culture Clash (highly recommended, by the way) - has recently come out with a new book about resource guarding. It might behoove you to read this, as food aggression is a form of resource guarding, and it may extend to other items with time.

The behaviorist is, of course, a good piece of advice and one you should follow. Also, be sure the dogs are getting enough individual attention. They have a yard to play in, so they probably are not getting walked every day. Maybe it is time to start doing that. You can also work on obedience training during that time - as every dog should have an obedience session daily, AFAIC, to reinforce the guidelines and stregthen the bond between you.

I don't see this as nearly a hopeless situation - there are many things that can be tried before the decision may have to be made to rehome the dog(s). If they were fighting constantly, at the slightest provocation, it would be much harder to deal with - but since you know what causes the fights, you can quite easily avoid them.

 

[robmoore]

Interesting Stuff

First on the cat topic....nope, the dogs don't show any aggressiveness to the cats. The one cat the ignore like the plague as she is a little cranky and scares them (they will walk all the way around a room if she is standing in the doorway just to avoid any confrontation). The other LOVES to play with them by walking up on them when they are asleep or laying down, flick her tail on them, and then run, praying that they will chase her (which they do with delight..), but when they corner or "catch" her, all is forgiven and the game repeats itself.

As far as the books and advice, will definitely try the separation gig. There is no doubt they don't get as much attention as they did prior to the baby being born. although since then, we have had someone home with them all day as opposed to having a dog sitter come and check on them once a day when we were at work (if warm, they were out playing in the yard, if cold, they were in and went out with dog sitter). Thanks again and will look through the books.

 

[KC]

Whenever the baby has any food item, remove the dogs from the area. Put them in another room (two other rooms, I guess) or their crates and give them a special treat. Let them back into the main part of the house when the eating is over. Short, daily training is a fabulous tool for reinforcing your status as "boss" and keeping negative behavior in check. Make sure they get some "dog only" play time each day - even if it's just for a little while - to get rid of some excess energy - especially on rainy days. I can so relate . . . a tired boxer is a calmer boxer.

Don't rehome them yet - it's much too soon. They aren't going to hurt your baby if you do the above - see how that works. Obviously, the books and behavioralist are next on the list of things to do. Don't give up on them yet - it's just a time of adjustment - baby is getting to be more of a presence - more vocal, more movement, more physical with the dogs - they need some solid rules, enforced appropriately, and lots and lots of lovin'. They need to have structure and boundaries - you've got to get that established and stick to it - it really helps the dogs during this time of changes to have some stability.

If you feel you have to rehome - rescue is the way to go. I work with rescue (and so understand the frustration expressed in other posts) and know that we place dogs very carefully and follow up on their treatment in their new homes. It is the ONLY safe way to rehome your dogs unless you personally know people to take them - in my opinion.

Remember this - this is a difficult time of adjustment for everyone in the home - those dogs will be your child's best friends, greatest protectors, and most faithful companions. Don't deny them of that opportunity when there is still more you can do to alleviate the current tension.

Good luck, let us know how things go.

 

[catcompany]

measuring love

Originally posted by robmoore
Those of you that don't have children and think that you will in some way put your dogs, cats, fish, birds, or whatever else you have in the house, above or at an equal level of concern or love as your children when you have them, best of luck. Very easy to say when you aren't in that situation.

I happen to have a 15 month old child.......and before I had her I had my rescue boy Draco-------and strange as it may sound----I always loved my Draco as much as I loved my daughter Royina---here there was no place for comparision---I didnot have a scale to measure my love for them---they both are my children and I love them. Now I have Argos and he is also loved very much. How can I say that I love Royina more or Argos less. The question of more & less doesnot arise when you are talking about your own kids (be it fur or skin for us crazy boxer lovers). But yes, people do feel differently-----I am not in your situation and hopefully I will never be. But I know deep in my heart that if I was in your situation I would have thought about it differently. I am entitled to my emotions and you yours.
Hopefully you will find the right solution and everything will be fine.

 

[robmoore]

Learning A Lot

Thanks again for all the responses and advice. Learned all sorts of things today and appreciate the advice.

 

[Barb_IA]

Wow...I don't know what your boxers are like...since all have their own personalities. I had 2 boxers and I fed them at opposite ends of the kitchen. I can't say that I ever had a problem with food issues.
Plenty of exercise is definitely a must.
I hope things work out and your able to keep your babies.
I have a child care in my home...my dogs are around the children some of the time. I do keep the dogs and children separated most of the time just to assure me if I turn my back something doesn't happen.....because you never know. My dogs love children. Lacey is much more tolerable of children than Loki was.
No matter how much you think you really know your pet and think you can trust them there's always that one chance they may bite.
It's just something you deal with on a daily basis for the life of your pet.
Hope there is a satisfying option that works well for you and your family.

 

[BoxerBabe2]

Rob,

I am wondering if through these fights your boxers have, if there has been any real damage? Has either of them broken skin or done physical damage to the other? I ask this because I have two boxers myself, mother and daughter. They get along wonderfully, and while there aren't "food" issues, sometimes they fight. If Maxine gets on Diamond's nerves (Max = pup) OR when my husband pays special attention (any attention really) to Diamond, Maxine gets really jealous & will start biting at Diamond's neck and legs. When they start any of this fighting, it sounds AWFUL. They get each other on the ground, snap at each other, grab each other's collars and even wrap their jaws around each others' necks - HOWEVER - they have NEVER broken skin or hurt the other. I've come to realize (through many frightened moments) that they just fight for domination (I think you mentioned they hump each other in your original post) and they try to hump each other. It's nothing more than domination and really hasn't anything to do with being "fixed" or not. I used to get terrified when they first started their fighting because it really sounded like they were going to kill each other. I'd run over to them as fast as I could to separate them, but after time went on I began to realize they would NEVER hurt each other. Diamond just puts Max back in her place. The reason I'm telling you this is because I'm wondering if perhaps they're NOT really going to hurt each other even though it sounds/looks bad and that there just hasn't been enough time for you to see this. It took me quite some time to become accustomed to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this IS the case as I have not seen your dogs in action. If ultimately you do have to get rid of them, that is your decision. I just don't want to see you make any mistakes. Not only that, but who's to say that if another family gets your boxers they won't have children of thier own or family/friends who bring children over - it's going to happen there too. I'm sure you're very concerned about your boxers hurting each other too - not just your baby.

Also, concerning how boxerworld members feel about thier boxers, it is not a matter of "getting real".....let me explain. I have been trying to have my own skin baby for almost 4 yrs. now to no avail....so for some of us, we treat our boxers as if they were our skin babies..sounds crazy I'm sure, but it's a fact. My pup has been sleeping in my bed since she was 8 weeks old (when all the others went to their new homes) and it's very rare she sleeps anywhere else....she is my child!

Perhaps you can separate them when you feed them AND also do your best to sweep up after the baby has eaten and be on the lookout for anything the baby might have dropped. OR perhaps you can designate one room (laundry room, spare room, bathroom - whatever works) where the baby doesn't eat. When the baby eats, put the dogs there and just try finding any remnants of food lying around before releasing them to the rest of the house...just a suggestion. This is a board for opinions and help. You needn't get upset with anybody for giving their opinions. We at Boxerworld are looking out for the best intentions of EVERYBODY INVOLVED - including your dogs.....

I really hope you can find it in your heart to do anything and everything to NOT have to give them up. I wish you tons of luck and please please just TRY a little longer.

I truly understand your concern for your skin baby. Undoubtedly he/she is most important, but given the nature of the boxer I would venture to guess that it CAN be worked out.

Good Luck and please keep us posted.

 

[sammy7]

Wow, what a heated thread!

Since this is the Community Support forum, please let me give you my some! I hope that you and your wife can work this family situation out. I know that there are times when you feel like there is only one solution to a problem. Usually though, with relflection and with problem solving you can find another way. If you guys can still hang in there please don't give up your dogs.

Not that this is extremely relevant but.... When my son was an infant, Tango growled on two seperate occasions as the child was crawling on the floor. Of course I freaked and my immediate response was, with ache in my heart, that he would have to go if it ever happened again. We did consult a trainer and this was helpful. We worked through the problem and now my son is four and we have never had another incident. You may be thinking that you couldn't have risked the child's safety but I was extremely vigilent for a very long time and never let the two alone together. Now I have no concerns about the two together!

Good luck to you and your family!

Samantha

 

[Debbie Magon]

Rob, for 25 years I have bred, raised and loved dogs and kids together.
15 of these years have been devoted to boxers.
Boy!!! Have I learnt a ton of interesting stuff about them.
Boxers seem to be as individual and unique as humans!

They all have different personalities and habits and will respond in their own ways to treatment.

When my kids were small, as you can imagine our house was pretty crowded and busy. 3 kids, lord knows how many boxers and a couple of cats thrown in for good measure!!!!
I often wonder now, how on earth we all fitted into our "cosy" home!!!

Over these years I encountered numerous problems with various boxers.
I didnt have the internet or corrective trainers. I didnt even own any books about animal behaviour!
By simply observing my dogs and sizing up situations I learnt this.
Each dog needed just the right handling or solution, that was custom made for that particular dog.
Sometimes the solution that suited the dog best did not sit well with the owner. ME!
Sometimes I was lucky and the dog responded to a solution that did suit me and I was very pleased!
But I came to accept that we must do what is right for the animal in question and not what pleases our heart.
An incident very similar to that which you describe happened between a bitch and a dog I owned.
Uncle and niece, in fact.
Raised together,kennelled together, best of mates, till one day POW!!!!
They began to fight.
I was very upset and considered parting them right away!
I couldnt understand what had changed?? Maybe nothing that I , a mere human could "see".
Perhaps it was a maturity thing, or a jealousy thing??? Perhaps I wasnt paying these two enough attention??
I dont think I ever really solved the problem in my mind, but I did get these two to a point in their lives where they could co exist quietly.
Both these dogs were being shown and I was not ready to part with either at that stage.
I realised that the greatest fights were over food and toys.
Anything that was considered a treat or special item was fair game for a scrap.
These scraps were terrible!! The noise and snarling, teeth flashing and slobber everywhere. Bodies hurling into each other!!! Terrible!!!
Then one day I realised they never actually drew blood. After they were severley told off and the offending item removed they would run to their kennel, licking each others face. As if to say" You Ok mate?"
I havent got these two anymore. Sadly Zack died aged 7 years, and Briar now lives with friends.
The interesting aside is when Zack died Rose his sister missed him more than Briar , his "room mate" and when I rehoused Briar into a family with very young children, she never looked back.
She is and remains a very happy single dog girl , with 3 little human girls to fuss over her.
I have no regrets about either keeping those two scrappers for so many years or rehousing Briar.
Either way those dogs enjoyed their lives and each other, at the time they were living it and to me thats what counts.
I think if you want to keep both dogs and you have saftey concerns you should work out a system where the dogs and baby are always supervised.
Otherwise the dogs should be in crates or a kennel till you have time for them.
If not? get good homes for them.
Dogs dont pine as much as humans do, and most if cared for, will adjust fairly quickly to new owners.

 

[Scorpio]

Rob, do you have any close realtives or good friend that love your dogs as you do? that may be willing to take both or one? that way you cud still keep in close contact and see them? I know if I had to get rid of my dogs there are a dozenof people that wud take them in a minute!