Jealousy of baby causing me to lose my babies

[BRIDGIT]

There are never any guarantees in this world, however even if I do go down the behaviorist route and they dogs appear to have modified their behavior, if in three years, the same thing happens and my son is injured in an accident, I would again hold myself 100% responsible and know that I could have prevented it from happening....that isn't something I can risk happening.

Let me first say thank you for responding and letting us know how you feel. I agree with the fact that you cannot let anything happen to your skin child because of your boxers and their issues. Regarding the above quote:

Are you never going to own another dog? Because if you do there are no gaurantees that a different dog would never do something harmfull to your child. What about the cats? Can you say that they will never harm your child? Should they also be given to a new home? Growing up I was scratched by many more cats than harmed by any dogs we owned. From your original post you started off saying that you would like to find them a home. Then you asked if anyone had any advice. Then you went back to saying that "there is no decision to be made because they have to go." I am confused because now in your new post you say that you might be willing to see a behaviorist to possibly remedy these issues. But in the end you go back saying that you cannot gaurantee that by working with a behaviorist it will ever 100% make sure that nothing happens so you cannot take that risk. Please don't get me wrong, I have no idea what you are going through with your dogs. I am only trying to understand the thought process behind giving up your two boxers. I do not in any way doubt that you love them and have cared for them for three years. I am just voicing my opinion on your previous posts on this forum which you asked for advice on. I am sorry if you do not like everyone's opinion but that is what they are, opinions and I hope you can read each post and possibly take something from them.

 

[robmoore]

Question for Jeanne

Jeanne - Have you or folks you know been in a situation where they have had to split their dogs up? I imagine it has got to be hard for them, but didn't know if you had heard of any positive (or negative) experiences with that happening. It is definitely an option and one that I would love to do because I know either one would continue to be a wonderful and loved member of the family, I am just scared that splitting them up would do more to harm them in the long run.....

 

[cashisking]

"I am in the Atlanta area and really do not have any other choice than to give them to a caring home that will take both of them. They are brother and sister and EXTREMELY close, so can't imagine the heartbreak if they were separated. "


Get in touch with a boxer rescue in your area...Hopefully, their forever home will be screened. And the people who get them will be educated in the breed..

 

[robmoore]

Response to Bridget

Yeah, think my vacillation between working through this and having to give them up shows how confused we are with this. I know that the immediate solution is to segregate the baby and the boxers....just to ensure no issues arise. I just don't know how feasible a long term solution to the fighting is with the pressures of raising an infant at this moment is and want some advice.

The cats haven't displayed any activity or behavior in the past that is cause of concern like the dogs have, so I do not have the same concerns. I am like you....had plenty of cat scratches growning up as a kid and only one minor bite from a dog that wasn't even mine, but don't honestly see the comparison here. I have witnessed aggression that risk the health of my son displayed by my dogs, I haven't from my cats....don't see the reason why I should consider banishing the cats.

 

[BRIDGIT]

I see what you mean by not having any aggression from the cats but you post said that you would be upset if something happend to you son and you could have prevented it. I failed to mention that I was severly scratched by a cat on my eye lid as a child because I was just playing with the cat. That cat had never been aggressive but did not like my play I suppose. If I had not blinked when I did I would have serious problems with my left eye. My reference to the cats was only to show you that you cannot 100% prevent everything that happens to your child wether it be caused by a cat or dog that had never shown aggression before.

I truly hope you make the decision that is best for your family and your dogs.

 

[VTbxrFan]

Re: Question for Jeanne

Originally posted by robmoore
Jeanne - Have you or folks you know been in a situation where they have had to split their dogs up? I imagine it has got to be hard for them, but didn't know if you had heard of any positive (or negative) experiences with that happening. It is definitely an option and one that I would love to do because I know either one would continue to be a wonderful and loved member of the family, I am just scared that splitting them up would do more to harm them in the long run.....

I'm not Jeanne, but I do have some personal experience with this. My Dallas is a rescue -- his owners gave him up when they learned that they were expecting a baby and at the same time both changing jobs to longer shifts. They had two boxers and feared that the dogs wouldn't get the love and attention they deserved. They and the rescue they worked with jointly decided to split the dogs up because they felt it would be easier to find two good homes than one home willing to adopt both dogs, plus the owners felt that both dogs were more interested in attention from people than they were in each other.

I can say with certainty in this case that it did not harm the dogs. Dallas loves to play with other dogs, but he also wants all of my attention on him. In a strange twist of fate, the owners I got him from initially ended up keeping his "sister" thinking they could manage with just one dog. After a year, they gave her up to, in part because she has a medical condition and they were not willing to pay for that treatment. I'm actually fostering her now - she and Dallas get along well and I enjoy having her around, but they do both want to be the center of attention when people are around. If we ignore them, the dogs play happily together, but if you start petting one or talking to one, the other immediately runs over to butt in and see what's going on.

I'm not encouraging you to give up either of your dogs -- as a rescue volunteer I would like to see it work out so that everyone can continue living together -- but I did want to share my opinion on splitting them up. Each rescue is different, but I know that if I were the decision maker and you surrendered both or your dogs to me primarily because they fight with each other, I would probably split them up. It will be hard to find someone else willing to tackle the challenge that you can't solve even though you've had the dogs for years. I'd rather see the dogs quickly get into separate forever homes than be stuck in foster care for months and months because no one wants them as a pair.

Do you happen to have any friends or family members who would be interested in adopting one of your dogs? That way they could still see each other to play, but maybe they wouldn't fight so much.

 

[robmoore]

Gotcha

Tx....yeah, completely understand whatcha meant, just not as immediate a concern to be honest with you. Thanks again.

 

[robmoore]

Reply to VTbxrFan

Thanks for the info....more the day goes on and more I read, less concerned I am on the split if it does come to that (which I hope it doesn't). Obviously just struggling here with this. Tx!

 

[bustermom]

Rob,

I would definitely start with a reputable behaviorist. Be sure to get references - who has this person worked with in the past, what kind of long-term results did he/she get, what are his/her methods, has this person worked specifically with boxers, etc. You may also want to contact a boxer rescue org in your area for a recommendation or even direct advice - my guess is they've seen similar situations before.

Behaviorists have so much more experience than most of us dog owners and can very often look at the big picture and then drill down to the cause of the dogs' actions/issues. Once the problem(s) are identified, it's a matter of working to modify that behavior. I agree that nothing is guaranteed - dogs are thinking beings, not robots. However, perhaps a clearer understanding of the "why's" behind their actions may make it easier to understand and relieve some of your concerns.

I would also do a search on "food aggression" or "resource guarding" here to get some more suggestions on what has worked for others.

Good luck - it sounds like you do care for your boxers, and I sincerely hope that the objective help of a behaviorist does the trick for you.

 

[Astoreen]

Re: You all are right....

Originally posted by robmoore
I appreciate the comments and suggestions on working with a rescue program, however if these last two post are examples of the zealots that take dogs from rescue programs, I am fearful there that I am not making a wise decision to go that path either.

So now I'm a zealot b/c I spoke up in defense of your poor dogs who know nothing about what is going on except for the fact that they now just don't fit in to the family picture. Condemn me to hell for that. Someone needed to be an advocate for them. I help rescue dogs who've come from situations like yours (new baby, new home, not enough time, new wife, new family, divorce, whatever) so consider the source of my frustration and then we can talk. Until then, don't call me names.

Furthermore, I thought you said that your dogs have shown no aggression towards your child. You've made a lot of presumptions about their future behavior without fully considering or looking into any remedies besides getting rid of them. I'm glad you will now consider a behaviorist but the tone of your reponse leads me to believe that you'd rather just get rid of them than deal with it. If you came here looking for sympathy, you're in the wrong place. I can't and won't sympathize with you until you've expended every conceivable option.......they deserve that, at the very least, from you. You also say that there are no guarantees in life; however, in the same sentence you are virtually banking on the guarantee that your child will be maimed by these terribly aggressive dogs. You are also banking on a "guarantee" that their behavior can't be modified.

As a parent, you take the time to teach your human child what acceptable behavior is and is not, knowing that there is a risk that this may backfire at some point in their life. What do you do? You re-teach them acceptable behavior so that they are well-adjusted, well mannered young citizens. You do everything in your power to help them. How is that any different than what you would do for a dog? When you bring a second child into your home will you pay any less attention to your first child? Make him "play second fiddle" to use your words? Jealousy is a possibility there as well. How will you manage that situation? All I'm trying to say is that they deserve a shot to show you that they can behave and you owe it to them to show them that they aren't simply second rate.

It never fails, someone asks for advice and then thinks they're being attacked. I'm not clairvoyant and neither is anyone else here. This is a message board filled with people who absolutely adore this breed and would do anything for them. If you think I'm a zealot because of that, then fine. I'll gladly be a zealot anyday. This zealot is taking the easily discarded dogs into her home and loving them as they should be. I'll be doing this with children in the near future, as well, and that makes me a horrible person!?! That's preposterous and asinine

I'm respectfully bowing out of this conversation because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. You solicited opinions and that's what you got. In the end, I hope you do what's best for you and your dogs. You're the one that has to make the decision and live with it.