Is ace still bad? Interesting conversation with the Vet.

[DeLong]

Tula went in to be spayed today and I showed the vets the warnings from Wendy Wallner and the quote from the 1993 edition of "Handbook of Veterinary Drugs" about ace & boxers.It took them by suprise so they pulled out the 95 edition and couldnt find a warning reguarding Boxers. She said they give ace and a shot of something else I cant remember to keep the heart rate from dropping.This is common procedure for all dogs they sedate. They have never had a problem with ace in boxers and she said she was going to try and contact wendy wallner and the American Veterinary Society to get to the bottom of this. They did give tula valium & the other shot instead and she showed me in the handbook that valium had more side affects than ace. It was not confrontational at all but the vets were very concerned that this is bad/outdated information on acepromazine.They have always taken excellent care of my dogs and my familys dogs for 20+ years.

I guess Im just wondering if anyone else has had any experiences like this with thier vet? Sorry for the long post.

 

[Net45582]

If it was bad then,why wouldn't it be bad now?The breed hasn't changed. I'm glad they decided to give your Boxer something else instead...even if they did say it have more side effects.
Wanda Kiddo & Chancey

 

[Draymia]

Ace is still bad. It can be used many times with no problems, but who wants to risk that one time, when the result may be death.

My vet stopped using Ace for any dog quite a few years ago. He uses valium now.

Many years ago, before the dangers where known, I had two dogs faint after receiving Ace. I was lucky and they did recover, but it is a known risk.

I am glad your vet is open enough to look into it. Says they are truely concerned about their patients.

 

[RonaldMM]

I had a similar situation with my vet and ace when Drake was neutered. She insisted that ACE was completely safe. I had printed out several pages on the dangers of using ace and had them staple it to Drake's file. She used valuim and everything went well. I wouldn't take ANY risk.

 

[dharmadoodle]

If it was bad then,why wouldn't it be bad now?

To be fair things do change, or our knowledge of things.

Once upon a time we were told that eating cheese before bedtime gave you nightmares - Now it's supposed to help you sleep, as it has a calming effect!!

So I for one would be interested if there was any new findings about ACE.

 

[Jill's boxer]

You'll find that many vets have differing opinions and beliefs on the use of ace...even in regards to its safe use in Boxers. I hvae worked with many vets at several hospitals--some agreed that it was bad, others felt that its "danger" to boxers was overblown...personally I have seen several boxers crash when given ace and would never consider using it on my boxers and I made sure to do my best to convert the vets I worked for to not use ace on the boxers we saw! Any vet, whether they agree or not, should honor your request to not use ace. Each dog is individual and what may negatively affect one could be fine for another, but it is definitely not worth the risk in my opinion, when the overall consensus is that, as a breed, boxers are more sensitive to the adverse reactions that may be caused by Ace.

It is common to give pre-anesthestic injection prior to sedating a patient--to exact combination of drugs depends on that particular vet's preference, really. The most important factor is that you dog is checked over and evaluated prior to being given any injections to be sure an accurate heart rate, etc is obtained....unfortunately I have seen situations where pre-anesthestic meds are given as a matter of routine without properly assessing each dog beforehand--that's when you usually end up having a problem, ace or no ace regardless of the breed!

 

[Sweet Ginny]

Oh THANK YOU for this post!! I am a fairly new member and have read so many threads that have been so beneficial to my little girl, but I had not seen any on ACE yet. She is my first boxer--there is so much to learn.

Ginny is getting spayed on Thurs, so the timing of this thread could not have been better!!!

I just called my vet to make sure I have options BEFORE we get there on Thurs. The technician told me that they do use some ACE (looking at the estimate they gave me) but if I have concerns all I need to do is let them know Thurs morning when I bring her in. She said they often have cases when owners ask that ACE not be used and there will be no problem with changing to something else . . . whew. I had no idea.

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

 

[DeLong]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

Youre welcome. It was worth posting if it helps someone else out.Thanks to all that have replied.All have very good input.

Our vet is a great person. I ask for valium and she loaded it right up. no problem.SHe wants to be current inher care so thats why shes going to look into it.It upset her when Rockne died because she knew him so well. She would comment how he was the oldest boxer patient at the time. He loved going to the vet & they loved to see him.....

Tula has to spend the night tonight and we miss her already. I dont know if Ill be able to sleep without her snoring in my ear.

 

[Shanz]

I was surprised to find that my pharmacology text book doesnt have any warning about ACE and boxers. It does say that it shouldnt be given to dogs with history of seizures because it can induce them, it also says it can speed up the heart rate but nothing at all regarding boxers.
I asked my professor about it too and he knew nothing about it. He did say that when the preop mixture BAG (butorphanol, ace and glycopyrelate) is used,you can play with the amounts in it i.e. 50% Butorphanol, 25% ace and 25% glycopyrelate. and that makes the ACE less i guess "active" in the mixture.

 

[Sweet Ginny]

He did say that when the preop mixture BAG (butorphanol, ace and glycopyrelate) is used,you can play with the amounts in it i.e. 50% Butorphanol, 25% ace and 25% glycopyrelate. and that makes the ACE less i guess "active" in the mixture.

I wonder if that is why the technician told me that they do use "some ACE" . . . maybe the amount was smaller than normal since Ginny is a boxer.

I am still going to ask that they not use ANY. Better safe than sorry, right?