HUGE fight between Har & Zoe & I got bit!!! (looong)

[harley'smama]

Oh, where do I start. I'm in tears right now because I'm so upset - & in pain...lately they have been fighting over toys & Harley snaps at Zoe if she starts to annoy him too much. But it was never anything I couldn't break up. Tonight we went to my friends house for them to play with her Ridgeback. Everything was fine until my 2 started their rough play & it turned into a fight. I couldn't separate them for anything. After we finally separated them they were ok, no fighting. Then we came home...they were barking at something out the window & I was looking to see what was going on. Zoe barked & jumped on Harley & he got mad & attacked her. It seemed to last forever! I got ahold of each collar to separate them but Zoe was still lunging at Harley. I eventually layed on Harley to stop him & that's when I got bit!!! I know it was an accident but to think that that's how hard he was biting her :eek: They fought some more because I couldn't stop it for the life of me. The only reason I finally got it stoppd was because Zoe was on top of Harley biting his neck! I puller her off of him & put her outside because Harley was bloody. There was literally fur flying, chunks of it all over the living room floor...
I don't know what's going on. Why are they starting to fight like this? Harley will be 2 in Feb & Zoe is 15 months old. Is she trying to prove herself to him or something? I've always thought Harley was the alpha but is she trying to change that? I'm so lost as to what to do...and once I break up the fight & check/clean up injuries what do I do? Should I put them in a time out away from each other or in their crates? I let Zoe in to check her & she acted like nothing happened, sniffing Harley & trying to get him to play. When she even looked at him his hair raised & his tail was down so I have to keep her away from him.
Please help! Any advice..
Shannon

 

[Boxer_21]

Wow Shannon, I'm so sorry to hear about your troubles!! I never expected to hear that Harley and Zoey would get into a fight. :(

I've never been in this situation so I can't offer you any advice that comes from experience. Have you considered having a canine behaviorist to help you work on the problems?? I think that may be a good place to start. Sharon (Krikkit) posted several links which may help you find a behaviorist in your area. Here's the link... http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46555

Then of course you have the book recommendations that come up frequently. They may be able to offer you some insight.

I hope someone else can offer you more info and advice. I hope things get better for you.

- Mandy

 

[douma]

I'm very sorry for your situation,it must be very hard:( :(
Recently, i have read a very good book which focus on all class of aggression,it's an encyclopedic book of 400 pages.
Wishing you good luck

Sophia and Avra

 

[douma]

sorry i forgot to write the title of book:rolleyes:
"Aggression in dogs:practical management,prevention & behaviour modification"by Brenda Aloff

Sophia

 

[Kim Y]

I'm not an authority by any means but here's a few things I'm learning. I've been doing some reading on this as we have our son's dog Kirby for an indefinite period of time. Kirby is a 9 months to a year younger than Oscar and has always been dominant over Oscar. I knew that was going to be issue when Kirby came to live with us 24/7.

First of all, you have to, have to, have to set yourself and the rest of your family as the alphas over the dogs. I made sure I removed all toys/chewies, etc from the house. I missed a couple that were strategically hidden in the house :rolleyes: Sure enough, a fight erupted over them when they were found by one of the dogs. I took them away from them immediately. Another problem point is who gets attention and when. Food, toys and attention (remember these are doggies so any type of attention is attention) are the key issues. We are very careful right now about how we feed and dole out attention. In the beginning we had a couple of fights break out but once we straightened out who was alpha (us) and removed all problem points, we haven't had a fight since. Notice which of the dogs enter the house first....that is the dog that is dominant over the other dog. I fed them separately in the beginning making sure the dominant dog was fed first. This was only a couple of weeks ago and now both are eating together with no problems (not to say that in the future that will be the case). I'm always watching them and observing what's going on so I can keep abreast of anything that may erupt. Both dogs stop dead in their tracks before entering the house until I or someone else in the family enters first (a good thing which tells me I'm on track because the alphas are always first).

It sounds like you do have some dominance issues going on....go back to your books -- The Dog Listener, Culture Clash, etc, and practice or get into an obedience class ASAP. A GOOD BEHAVIORIST is worth their weight in gold (which is sometimes what it seems like you have to pay but if they're good it's well worth the investment).

Like I said in the beginning, I'm not an expert by any means but these are some of the things we did that helped TONS.

Good luck and let us know how things are going.

 

[harley'smama]

Thanks for the advice Kim Y! I'm going to order some more books and look for a behaviorist. I called the vet this am & all they gave me was the name of a couple of trainers. I might try one of them too. But since I'm only 1 person & there's 2 dogs, which one do I take to training??? I think Zoe is trying to establish herself as the higher ranking dog & after some research I've figured out I'm not helping matters much. I've read that I have to treat the higher dog like they are the higher dog but while still being the alpha myself. Zoe pushes her way through doors first, before me, which I will put a stop to. Both dogs get fed at the same time & have never fought over the food, just toys. I guess I'll pick up the toys for awhile also, I'm also going to check out those links Krikkit posted Mandy I didn't have time to last night I was so upset :rolleyes:...Just now, Harley walked past Zoe & looked at her & she started growling at him!!! UGH.

 

[douma]

Originally posted by harley'smama
Just now, Harley walked past Zoe & looked at her & she started growling at him!!! UGH.

Shannon,i'm not an expert but if i were you i will separate them for awhile,they must be under stress now:(
Of course it's just my thought
Sophia

 

[Boxer_21]

Originally posted by harley'smama
I called the vet this am & all they gave me was the name of a couple of trainers. I might try one of them too. But since I'm only 1 person & there's 2 dogs, which one do I take to training???

Shannon,

I honestly think that a behaviorist would be better than a normal trainer. I'm not saying that a trainer would be useless, but with the type of problems that you seem to be having I think a behaviorist would be more qualified to help. I would definitely check into a behaviorist before trying to find a normal trainer. A behaviorist will most likely want to come to your home and observe them for a little while. They will know what signs to look for and will be able to offer you some advice.

Maybe once the behaviorist visits, they'd be able to answer your question about bringing them to just a normal trainer.

- Mandy

 

[Kim Y]

I have to agree with Mandy about a behaviorist. We have a behaviorist for Oscar because of some past issues. We almost choked when he told us his charges. He came directly to our home (as he said, this is where the root of most problems lie) and once we were through his training, he said he would be there for us at no charge, anytime, through Oscar's life. It didn't take us long to think about this as he had an impressive list of references and credentials AND he didn't laugh at me when I brought up books such as The Dog Listener and Culture Clash. (I've had trainers either look at me like I was an alien or laugh smugly when I've brought these books up).

You really need to do some research on placing yourself as alpha, etc. The Dog Listener is an excellent place to start as well as digging through threads here. Don't put it off.

As I said in my earlier post, a good behaviorist is worth their weight in gold. The trick is finding a good one.

Hang in there

 

[sashamom]

Poor you!! I really don't have any advice as we just have one, but wanted wish you well and hope things get better for you and the tots!! Good luck
Sasha and Lisa