Huge AKC Vent (Long)

[Tysonsway]

I contaced AKC again today to get an update on my BYB scam (Check my other posts for background) and got a lot of disturbing information from the AKC corrospondant. AKC did send a letter to the mass-producer of my boxer about them not giving me the papers after they had registered the litter with AKC.
I've been talking to this AKC corrospondant (Christine) since July to try and repremand the mass-producers (I refuse to call them breeders!), so we understand each other and she knows that I have been dealing with this situation since April!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She stated that they are still waiting for a reply to the letter they sent to the MP's (Mass-Producers)... They apparently need to give them 60 days to respond... Thats fine, at least they tried... I started asking her what I can do now that I'm pretty sure they are not going to send me the papers and that they did this to the 7 other purchasers. Christine stated that I need to coem to the realization that I probably wont get the papers and that I probably wont ever find these people again (I've managed to find them 2 different times after they moved, changed there address and phone #).
I asked Christine if the AKC could revoke the MP's boxers AKC registration, for not following procedure and for letting the owner of the Sire sign my bill of sale stating I would receive the papers (they are not married, so I was informed that my BOS is not binding)... which isnt exactly illegal, but the sire owner is not allowed to sell any of the puppies since the Dam's owner technically ownes them. So Christine states that they cant prove that the Sire's owner took the puppy without the Dam's owner knowing.... hmmmmm... then my mind started turning... If they cant prove he took and sold the puppy with out her knowing, why is my BOS worthless and not binding?!?!? Christine said that its a "catch 22" and that she didnt have an answer for me... just that they cant do anything with out 100% proof that our puppy came from the Dam's litter... UUUURG... SO FRUSTRATING!!
It gets worse... I switched topics and requested that all claims and complaints against these MP's be stored in a similiar file so that when it happend again with the next litter that there will already be a record and hopefully then the AKC will put a stop to it... Christine's answer: "Due to our system we are unable to collect claims/ complaints against breeders without having the same reference number".... WHAT!!!! You're telling me that there could be 100 other complaints about my MP and you wouldn't know about it becuase you have no way of searching through them by the breeders name??? Christine: "Pretty much".
I was shocked! I realize that the AKC handles a ton of registrations but there has got to be a better way to do this! They have to be able to catch unethical and illegal MP's!! I told her I was extremely disappointed with their system and that soemthing needs to be done about it. She agreed and just added that there was only 2 other people within AKC that handle these complaints and that they didnt have the time or manpower to resolve them all.
Finally, after this long conversation (not too heated) she stated that I should count my blessings with my precious pup and let the fight go. Well, I'm not ready to fo that yet... It hurt too bad to be taken advantage by these MP's and I dont want it to happen to anyone else! I asked her again why there weren't harsher punishments for people that are abusing the AKC system... Christine stated that AKC is an honor system, that the information provided and registered by the "Breeders" is claimed to be true but that AKC cant prove it unless DNA is provided (only required by those breeders that have more than 3 litters a year). So that the MP's that registered that litter could have been lying anyhow...
I mean talk about a blow to the head, Why is AKC considered such a high priority if people can lie about it, the AKC people realize they do but still dont do anything ABOUT IT??? I'm so mad right now and dont know what to do. I've always been a big supported of the AKC but now dont know what to think.

I want these MP's to be repremanded and dont want this to happen to anyone else but I've been dealing with it for so long that I'm tired of hitting dead ends!!! I need some reassurance... my husband is telling me to let it go, and now AKC is telling me too... I've come this far that it bothers me to just give up.

I dont know what to do... I'm gonna go play with Jasmine and forget about it for a while... She always manages to clear my head... I love her so much and she worth every minute of this struggle!

 

[courtney323]

Sorry for your troubles. Just curious though, why are the "AKC papers" so important to you? They only really matter if you are planning on showing or breeding...

At any rate, sorry that you got scammed by an unethical BYB. This is one of the reasons Boxerworld is such a useful site! Unfortunately, many people do not know about health testing, and buying from a breeder that aims to better the breed.

I would agree with your husband. Move on from this, and enjoy your wonderful puppy. Unfortunately, you probably won't ever be able to change the practices of these BYB's.

Good luck

 

[Tysonsway]

getting the papers aren't whats important... I want these breeders repremanded for what they are doing. If the papers were the only thing I was in this for I would have given up a long time ago... Its the way they treated me and the other 7 people that bought dogs from them.

Nasty people should not be able to get away with things like this... Thats my whole reason for persuing this!

 

[Mushy]

I agree w/you Jasmine's mom

I understand completely your frustration. Getting the papers is NOT the issue. It's allowing unscrupulous people like these BYB's to constantly and consistently abuse the honor of the AKC and the honor of innocent people. Even though you may have to at this point, moving on is a difficult thing to do knowing these people are making a living out of being dishonest at the expense of some poor dogs. It's also quite possible that these same people are over-breeding, creating a very weak link in the boxer blood lines, which will create more health problems and so on and so on. So you see, I understand that this has nothing to do with PAPERS. There's a much bigger issue at hand.

I am sorry for your troubles. And I wish the AKC were better staffed to be able to deal with these kinds of issues. Not dealing with them is causing the AKC to become a non-entity with little to no meaning after-all. Squeeze and kiss your baby every night and thank God at the very least they are out of the hands of such low-life, losers...

Regards,
Sheila & Mush

 

[Maniago]

Even though you may have to at this point, moving on is a difficult thing to do knowing these people are making a living out of being dishonest at the expense of some poor dogs. It's also quite possible that these same people are over-breeding, creating a very weak link in the boxer blood lines, which will create more health problems and so on and so on

This is the very reason research should be done BEFORE buying the puppy.

 

[Idgie's Dad]

Tough as it is, forget these S**** and try and move on. Otherwise, continueing to let this get you down when it seems you have definately gone the extra mile to try and stop them, can only end up having an adverse affect on you, your pup and your family. Even if these morally bankrupt people knew of your efforts they would probably not be bothered or even take satisfaction that they were getting away with it despite your extensive efforts. As gauling as it may seem, IMHO, you need to make a concerted effort and draw a line under this. Let all your boxer thoughts, posts and conversations be positive and forward thinking about your wonderful pup. I concur with your hubby, but only you can make this decision.

Best of luck.

Tony

 

[courtney323]

Well said, Idgie's Dad.

The AKC is simply a registry body. There is a reason they only have 1 or 2 people dedicated to fraudulent complaints.

That being said, it's highly unlikely that they will step in and do anything. It's also highly unlikely that these BYB's will change their practices as a result of Tysonsway's efforts.

As Maniago said, this is why it's so important to do your research before hand. I would give up this fight and move on. There's nothing wrong with trying to educate others on the puppy buying process (as this site does so well) -- but taking on the BYB's is such an uphill battle. I wouldn't have the time or energy.

Enjoy your puppy, and good luck to you

 

[JulieM]

Why is AKC considered such a high priority if people can lie about it, the AKC people realize they do but still dont do anything ABOUT IT???

What exactly do you want the AKC to do? They are a *registry* - they are not attorneys, they are not lawmakers, they are not police. If they receive valid evidence that a litter was registered improperly, they cancel the registrations and discipline the breeder/stud dog owner (depending on where the problem lies). What else can they - what else should they - do?

If you want to "make these people pay," follow the advice you were given a long time ago and pursue the issue through the legal system. The AKC has no control over your contract - the courts do. Bills of sale are covered by your or the breeder's state's Commercial Code, not by the AKC Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline.

I understand your frustration, but I think your expectations of the AKC's role in all of this are unrealistic.

 

[Bar B]

I too have had a lot of mixed feelings when it comes to AKC. AKC does have some outstanding programs for the REAL breeders but what gets me is when there is a puppy mill bust and the miller in question sales AKC or ConKC puppies.... To me it is saying AKC allowed this to happen...To me they have to know that there is a ton of paperwork going to one particular area....how could they not know???

For what it is worth...any type breeder has to report earnings if they profit more than a certain amount so it is possible (if you have proof) to get them with IRS fraud....OR a drive by could be possible

It is doubtful that AKC will do much after all they receive many dollars from the irresponsible.

By chance is this MP AKC inspected or do they qualify to be USDA liscensed???

 

[DanCat]

What exactly do you want the AKC to do? They are a *registry* - they are not attorneys, they are not lawmakers, they are not police. If they receive valid evidence that a litter was registered improperly, they cancel the registrations and discipline the breeder/stud dog owner (depending on where the problem lies). What else can they - what else should they - do?

If you want to "make these people pay," follow the advice you were given a long time ago and pursue the issue through the legal system. The AKC has no control over your contract - the courts do. Bills of sale are covered by your or the breeder's state's Commercial Code, not by the AKC Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline.

I understand your frustration, but I think your expectations of the AKC's role in all of this are unrealistic.

Logically if she was able to get the AKC to cancel their ability to register pups wouldn't that put them out of business possibly? This is my theory because they are selling the pups on the basis that they are "AKC" registered. People thinking that this is a determining factor when purchasing a pup would then not consider purchasing from them.