help! destructive behavior just beginning

[shells]

could really use some advice... i've been crating my 2 neutered boys, ages 5 and approx 7 y.o. as long as i have had them. they are perfect gentlemen when we are home, no destructive behavior, no peeing/pooping as long as we are home (even if we are sleeping or in another room). recently, my 7 y.o. has decided that he no longer wants to be crated, and destroyed 2 crates in about 2.5 months. he pulled back the bar across the lower part of the doorway and then hiked the door up and off its hinges to escape. we then decided maybe it was time to leave them out and see what happened. after a few trials where we learned from our mistakes (no more trash cans are out, even with lids!), we have completely "baby" proofed the house. they have free run of the upstairs hallway and the entire downstairs. the problem is they are now peeing (and sometimes pooping) in several spots daily, keep lying on the one set of couches they are not allowed on, and keep destroying at least one thing a day (today was 2 new rolls of aluminum foil (!!) on my kitchen counter. we at least understood when they ate a loaf of wonder bread 2 weeks ago...) i don't know what to do because they NEVER misbehave when we are home. i can't lock them in a room, my 7 y.o. will scratch on the door and then can open doorknobs when stressed, and both can jump/climb over any kind of barrier. i've seen a $500 indestructible crate which i really dont want to have to buy. we just ordered kong dispensers and alarming sensors to keep them off the couch, but i don't know what to do about the peeing. we leave lights on and a radio, and give them a kong when we leave. they have access to an entire toy chest of toys that we open before we leave as well. any advice please!!

 

[shells]

hmm, so no one has any advice, huh. i'm at a loss myself. i'm normally the one people come to for training advice too! i forgot to mention earlier that we are also cleaning all pee spots with regular cleaner in addition to an enzyme cleaner, and they are peeing on my laminate floor (i dont have carpet in the areas they are allowed to roam in). so in theory, there shouldnt be any pee smell to come back to either.

 

[gmacleod]

Do you know if it's one dog or both that are doing the destruction and toileting? The reason I ask is because your description of the younger dog's behaviour in your initial post sounds suspiciously like separation anxiety. SA is further characterised by multiple elimination (peeing and pooping all over the place) when left alone. It makes me wonder whether he's the one creating all the mess rather than both of them...?

Separation anxiety, should it be the case here, is not an easy thing to get on top of - because it is actually a psychological disorder, not just an anxious dog. It frequently manifests in adolescence, and is more common in (but not exclusive to) pups removed from their mother and littermates too early. If you think SA could be the problem with your guy, then it would really be worth finding a behavioural specialist to help you out here. It's not that easy to overcome, but it can be done.

 

[shells]

thanks for the reply! my 7 y.o. - Tyson - is acutally a rescue who i've always thought has some anxiety and seperation issues (but seperation was minimal). we've managed to control them fairly well over the past few years by giving him some structure and not allowing him to perpetuate his own anxiety by pacing or the like. Tyler, my 5 y.o., always seemed to have some seperation issues by becoming destructive when we left (and would sometimes drool, licking the bars of his crate, and yelp) but that has faded. he's been chewing some stuff, but has recently been just sleeping on an aerobed in one of my guest bedrooms where the door doesn't latch (i caught him a couple times coming out of the room). the peeing has remained a problem (when we're gone), pooping is rare. i'm not sure who has been peeing, though i can always tell when it's definately tyson - he's my marker, and has been marking a decorative tree, my fridge, the kitchen table, the toy chest, the bottom of the stairs, etc...we've managed to keep them off the living room couches with beeping vibration sensors, it's just the continuous elimination thats the problem. today we left, forgot something, and returned 5 minutes later, and there was already a puddle of urine at my front door (they had been let out to pee right before we left). we're looking into buying a stonger crate to see if it will hold him in. i just don't want him to hurt himself by trying to get out. it's just odd to me that this is starting 4 years after being crated, no problems (and no changes in our routine). the kong dispensers seem to keep them a little busy, but still not solving my problems...