Since I am considering getting a boxer, I am trying to find out all that I can about the breed. I have noticed down at the bottom of your posts, a lot of the dogs didn't live a very long time. I just wondered if this was attributed to a certain health problem. My schnauzer lived to be 15 and my cocker spaniel is almost 11 and still going. Are boxers prone to short lives or are they generally healthy?
health problems?
- Thread starter mixxiemae
- Start date
- Status
Kazz's Boxers
Super Boxer
Health
Boxers have a life expancty of 10-12 yrs, depending on who you talk to, and are prone to certian health problems, (Tumors, Heart problems, Cancer, Hip dysplisa (sp) but with proper care, proper diet, Where you get your boxer pup from, can play A VERY LARGE part how long your boxer will live.
More expericened boxer people can give you links, and info on more on this topic.
Mel
Boxers have a life expancty of 10-12 yrs, depending on who you talk to, and are prone to certian health problems, (Tumors, Heart problems, Cancer, Hip dysplisa (sp) but with proper care, proper diet, Where you get your boxer pup from, can play A VERY LARGE part how long your boxer will live.
More expericened boxer people can give you links, and info on more on this topic.
Mel
Gingeranne
Boxer Buddy
I'm sure others can give you more info. but I do know that in general big dogs don't live quite as long as smaller breeds. My parents have a 14 year old boxer who is still hanging in. He and Valentine were frisking around in the back yard just the other weekend.
Diego
Boxer Booster
Unfortunately because of bad breeding programs, the boxer does have some health issues (cancer, bloat, hip dysplasia, heart problems) but like Mel said, where you get your boxer and the life style you give him is paramount to how long a boxer can live. I've heard of boxers living 15 or more years. Research any breeder your considering extensively. Look into their background, their dogs and their pedigree.
Read this, and anything else you can find, before you make your decision on a breeder:
http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/findpet/findpup.htm
Diego
Read this, and anything else you can find, before you make your decision on a breeder:
http://www.cyberpet.com/cyberdog/articles/findpet/findpup.htm
Diego
Marimat
Boxer Expert<br><img src="/forums/images/modpaw.gi
Editorial - Part 1
mixxiemae and board,
This is a VERY long post in 2 parts. All underlined text are links.
I guess the crux of this enquiry from mixxiemae is basically to query the longevity of the boxer as a breed. She asked if it was due to a particular health problem and many have correctly responded with some of the diseases that can and do affect the longevity of the boxer.
The oldest boxer I have known was 18 years of age but this is a rarity, I have known several that make 14 or 15, but again this wouldn't be a mena figure. I'd probably go with the estimated average that Kazz's Boxers said of around 10-12 across the board. I'd also like to reiterate what Gingeranne wrote of big dogs having shorter life expectancy than smaller dogs. This is true as well. Most Great Dane breeders I know consider 8 an old dog and have given me an average age of 6 or 7 for this giant breed.
Back to boxers
Firstly I'd like to point out that disease is not the only thing that has a direct influence on longevity. There is also Diet, Upbringing, Environment, Pollutants etc etc Just the same as for us.
It's worth noting too, that while we are talking about longevity in the present, we have to remember that what we see today is in fact a decrease on what could be expected 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Whereas advances in medical science has seen an increase in human longevity the opposite has happened with dogs and the reality is it is probably we humans that contribute mostly to this. We are the ones causing the pollution. We are the ones putting the poisons in the food. We are the ones controlling the environment our dogs live in. We are the ones with the responsibilty of identifying genetic disease and trying to eradicate it. We fall down badly in most areas.
This link is an example of how we in fact do injustices to our dogs with what we feed them Polluted Pet Food
The one thing I only partially agree with from the replies so far is Diego's comment that "Unfortunately because of bad breeding programs, the boxer does have some health issues"
This is only partially true because many of the these diseases are inherited by the recessive mode and without genetic markers breeders can never be 100% sure of which dog is a carrier of some of the more critical or fatal diseases. Also not all the diseases known in boxers are familiar to all breeders as we tend to concentrate on what is urgent at the time or what is "in vogue" disease wise. The sad fact of the matter is that THE most conscientious, THE most reputable, THE most responsible breeders are still going to come up against these diseases at some time as most are recessive in nature. Also, whereas the need to screen for the diseases where screening is available, not all diseases are screenable e.g. cancer :(, is indisputable as afr as I am concerned one also needs to look at other factors that contribute, one of which is the fixation with in/line breeding. As far as I am concerned there is a definite element to line/in breeding that is far from responsible and is very destructive. While we might keep the dogs in our kennel looking the same we are also fixing in all these nasties into a given bloodline. This is probably just as, if not more destructive than failing to screen! Whenever something a bit new comes along there is a lot of hoo hah, from conscientious breeders anyway, in getting on top of the newest disaster! But even when it is identified they continue on with their in/linebreeding knowing full well in many cases that the disease that has just been identified is of a recessive nature and could well be lurking in the background waiting to wreak havoc and firmly entrenched into the genotype of a given bloodline.
For the unitiated there are actually 43 inheritable diseases already identified in boxers. They are listed at the Guide to Hereditary and Congenital Diseases in Dogs website.
But let's not get panicky over this list, most of these things are pretty uncommon, albeit known and it's not like the boxer is the only breed with genetic problems. There are 148 breeds of purebred dogs listed here and over 300 genetic diseases and the boxer is no where near the top of the list.
It is probably a matter of prioritising the diseases. Perhaps categorising would be better. Maybe we could split them into groups of like....
1) Fatal and/or Life threatening
2) Debilitating
3) Non urgent
Much like triaging.
End Part 1
Matthew
mixxiemae and board,
This is a VERY long post in 2 parts. All underlined text are links.
I guess the crux of this enquiry from mixxiemae is basically to query the longevity of the boxer as a breed. She asked if it was due to a particular health problem and many have correctly responded with some of the diseases that can and do affect the longevity of the boxer.
The oldest boxer I have known was 18 years of age but this is a rarity, I have known several that make 14 or 15, but again this wouldn't be a mena figure. I'd probably go with the estimated average that Kazz's Boxers said of around 10-12 across the board. I'd also like to reiterate what Gingeranne wrote of big dogs having shorter life expectancy than smaller dogs. This is true as well. Most Great Dane breeders I know consider 8 an old dog and have given me an average age of 6 or 7 for this giant breed.
Back to boxers
Firstly I'd like to point out that disease is not the only thing that has a direct influence on longevity. There is also Diet, Upbringing, Environment, Pollutants etc etc Just the same as for us.
It's worth noting too, that while we are talking about longevity in the present, we have to remember that what we see today is in fact a decrease on what could be expected 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago. Whereas advances in medical science has seen an increase in human longevity the opposite has happened with dogs and the reality is it is probably we humans that contribute mostly to this. We are the ones causing the pollution. We are the ones putting the poisons in the food. We are the ones controlling the environment our dogs live in. We are the ones with the responsibilty of identifying genetic disease and trying to eradicate it. We fall down badly in most areas.
This link is an example of how we in fact do injustices to our dogs with what we feed them Polluted Pet Food
The one thing I only partially agree with from the replies so far is Diego's comment that "Unfortunately because of bad breeding programs, the boxer does have some health issues"
This is only partially true because many of the these diseases are inherited by the recessive mode and without genetic markers breeders can never be 100% sure of which dog is a carrier of some of the more critical or fatal diseases. Also not all the diseases known in boxers are familiar to all breeders as we tend to concentrate on what is urgent at the time or what is "in vogue" disease wise. The sad fact of the matter is that THE most conscientious, THE most reputable, THE most responsible breeders are still going to come up against these diseases at some time as most are recessive in nature. Also, whereas the need to screen for the diseases where screening is available, not all diseases are screenable e.g. cancer :(, is indisputable as afr as I am concerned one also needs to look at other factors that contribute, one of which is the fixation with in/line breeding. As far as I am concerned there is a definite element to line/in breeding that is far from responsible and is very destructive. While we might keep the dogs in our kennel looking the same we are also fixing in all these nasties into a given bloodline. This is probably just as, if not more destructive than failing to screen! Whenever something a bit new comes along there is a lot of hoo hah, from conscientious breeders anyway, in getting on top of the newest disaster! But even when it is identified they continue on with their in/linebreeding knowing full well in many cases that the disease that has just been identified is of a recessive nature and could well be lurking in the background waiting to wreak havoc and firmly entrenched into the genotype of a given bloodline.
For the unitiated there are actually 43 inheritable diseases already identified in boxers. They are listed at the Guide to Hereditary and Congenital Diseases in Dogs website.
But let's not get panicky over this list, most of these things are pretty uncommon, albeit known and it's not like the boxer is the only breed with genetic problems. There are 148 breeds of purebred dogs listed here and over 300 genetic diseases and the boxer is no where near the top of the list.
It is probably a matter of prioritising the diseases. Perhaps categorising would be better. Maybe we could split them into groups of like....
1) Fatal and/or Life threatening
2) Debilitating
3) Non urgent
Much like triaging.
End Part 1
Matthew
Marimat
Boxer Expert<br><img src="/forums/images/modpaw.gi
Editorial - Part 2
Continued.....
Undoubtedbly the 2 biggies for group 1 would be Cardiac disease and cancer. Boxers carry genes for at least 2 potentially fatal heart diseases. There are the valvular stenosis diseases of Sub Aortic Stenosis, Pulmonic Stenosis and Mitral Stenosis and there is Cardiomyopathy. Of the valvular diseases, the most common and most important is SAS.
Links to Aortic Stenosis and Cardiomyopathy websites
http://www.boxerunderground.com/bu2000/jan2000/a_s_q_a.htm
http://clubs.akc.org/abc/boxer_cardiomyopathy.htm
http://www.boxergallery.com/articles/cardiomyopathy.htm
As for Cancer, this is a problem of gargantuan proportions in dogs but more so in boxers as they are known to be the breed with highest prevalence of cancer. No one gene has yet been isolated as the cause for cancer and there are very few ideas at present as to the heredity of the disease in it's many forms. However, there has now been identified a specific gene, the oncogene, which is said to occur in higher numbers in cancer prone individuals. Conversely there are unnamed cancer fighting cells which are more prevalent in some people. As you can see, we are still very much in the dark with cancer, that's why it's not always fair to blame breeders and their practices.
Link
http://www.hibridge.com/cancerfaq.htm
Of the group 2 diseases we'd be thinking along the lines of the commonest or more lethal diseases such as Boxer Hypothyroidism, Canine Hypothyroidism, Hip Dysplasia and Juvenile Renal Atrophy. Now not even many breeders will know about the last one buy boxers are listed in the top 5 for this disease, and there is no available screening at this time. Hypothyroidism is particularly important because it has such a wide ranging symptomology and is in fact very likely behind nearly all things in a boxer!! Boxers come in at number 6 for this one. Some of the manifestations of CH are:
lethargy, exercise intolerance, weight gain, mental dullness, hair loss, poor hair coat quality, mental depression and skin infections. There are also effects on the metabolic system, reproductive system, musculoskeletal system and other endocrine functions can be affected as well
Yep, hypothyroidism is a biggie indeed. It is very nearly a group 1 disease as death can occur due to uncontrolled symptoms as well as by euthanasia to end suffering
On the other hand, hip dysplasia is looking not to have the genetic significance as first thought. Modern thinking is that diet and environment are far more important factors in hip dysplasia. Here in Australia, in 13 years breed involvement I have never seen a boxer with HD!!!
Anyway here are the links, including one to a page about HD entitled "The Error of the Millenium in Veterinary Medicine"
It is the last in this series of links.
http://www.blarg.com/~jeffp/vetplus/clientinfo/juvenilerenal.html
http://clubs.akc.org/abc/boxerhypothyroidism.htm
http://www.proceedanimalwelfare.com/hypothyroidism.htm
http://www.transanimal.de/englisch.htm
Boxers are also implicated as being prone disorders or just about every biological system. Several of these disorders come simply from the fact that the boxer is a brachycephalic breed (short faced). Remember that just because we want him to look as he does and we select to have him look that way that this is without peril either. By choosing to have a brachycephalic breed we also choose, perhaps with good intentions, to actually breed to some genetic faults. This is true of all short faced breeds and their breeders. Below is a link to a site about this.
http://www.ndesign.ndirect.co.uk/ho...rticles/information/brachycephalic_breeds.htm
Group 3 diseases are many and varied and can be found at the website listed in Part 1. You won't find them under Group 3 diseases, that is just my terminology to try and categorise what we are faced with.
With all this, it's a wonder we have a breed to work with at all. And although there are many charlatans out there breeding willy nilly, not giving a tinkers cuss about what they churn out I think the above should shed some light on just how good and responsible our better breeders are.
And take heart, be thankful we are not one of the breeds with 70 or more genetic diseases because despite this information, we DO still have a fairly healthy breed despite our best efforts to the contrary, however unknowingly or knowingly we go about it
Matthew
Continued.....
Undoubtedbly the 2 biggies for group 1 would be Cardiac disease and cancer. Boxers carry genes for at least 2 potentially fatal heart diseases. There are the valvular stenosis diseases of Sub Aortic Stenosis, Pulmonic Stenosis and Mitral Stenosis and there is Cardiomyopathy. Of the valvular diseases, the most common and most important is SAS.
Links to Aortic Stenosis and Cardiomyopathy websites
http://www.boxerunderground.com/bu2000/jan2000/a_s_q_a.htm
http://clubs.akc.org/abc/boxer_cardiomyopathy.htm
http://www.boxergallery.com/articles/cardiomyopathy.htm
As for Cancer, this is a problem of gargantuan proportions in dogs but more so in boxers as they are known to be the breed with highest prevalence of cancer. No one gene has yet been isolated as the cause for cancer and there are very few ideas at present as to the heredity of the disease in it's many forms. However, there has now been identified a specific gene, the oncogene, which is said to occur in higher numbers in cancer prone individuals. Conversely there are unnamed cancer fighting cells which are more prevalent in some people. As you can see, we are still very much in the dark with cancer, that's why it's not always fair to blame breeders and their practices.
Link
http://www.hibridge.com/cancerfaq.htm
Of the group 2 diseases we'd be thinking along the lines of the commonest or more lethal diseases such as Boxer Hypothyroidism, Canine Hypothyroidism, Hip Dysplasia and Juvenile Renal Atrophy. Now not even many breeders will know about the last one buy boxers are listed in the top 5 for this disease, and there is no available screening at this time. Hypothyroidism is particularly important because it has such a wide ranging symptomology and is in fact very likely behind nearly all things in a boxer!! Boxers come in at number 6 for this one. Some of the manifestations of CH are:
lethargy, exercise intolerance, weight gain, mental dullness, hair loss, poor hair coat quality, mental depression and skin infections. There are also effects on the metabolic system, reproductive system, musculoskeletal system and other endocrine functions can be affected as well
Yep, hypothyroidism is a biggie indeed. It is very nearly a group 1 disease as death can occur due to uncontrolled symptoms as well as by euthanasia to end suffering
On the other hand, hip dysplasia is looking not to have the genetic significance as first thought. Modern thinking is that diet and environment are far more important factors in hip dysplasia. Here in Australia, in 13 years breed involvement I have never seen a boxer with HD!!!
Anyway here are the links, including one to a page about HD entitled "The Error of the Millenium in Veterinary Medicine"
It is the last in this series of links.
http://www.blarg.com/~jeffp/vetplus/clientinfo/juvenilerenal.html
http://clubs.akc.org/abc/boxerhypothyroidism.htm
http://www.proceedanimalwelfare.com/hypothyroidism.htm
http://www.transanimal.de/englisch.htm
Boxers are also implicated as being prone disorders or just about every biological system. Several of these disorders come simply from the fact that the boxer is a brachycephalic breed (short faced). Remember that just because we want him to look as he does and we select to have him look that way that this is without peril either. By choosing to have a brachycephalic breed we also choose, perhaps with good intentions, to actually breed to some genetic faults. This is true of all short faced breeds and their breeders. Below is a link to a site about this.
http://www.ndesign.ndirect.co.uk/ho...rticles/information/brachycephalic_breeds.htm
Group 3 diseases are many and varied and can be found at the website listed in Part 1. You won't find them under Group 3 diseases, that is just my terminology to try and categorise what we are faced with.
With all this, it's a wonder we have a breed to work with at all. And although there are many charlatans out there breeding willy nilly, not giving a tinkers cuss about what they churn out I think the above should shed some light on just how good and responsible our better breeders are.
And take heart, be thankful we are not one of the breeds with 70 or more genetic diseases because despite this information, we DO still have a fairly healthy breed despite our best efforts to the contrary, however unknowingly or knowingly we go about it
Matthew
JulieM
Boxer Insane
Bravo, Matthew, for an *excellent* post!
I just want to comment on one thing (surprise!
)
I heartily agree, and would include over-vaccination and over-medication in this list as well. Combined, these elements can have a devastating effect on the immune system as a whole - and many of the diseases that we are seeing today (in dogs of all breeds, and in people) are the end result of a weak or compromised immune system.
Hypothyroidism in adult dogs is usually the result of immune system deficiencies. Many believe that while certain dogs are prone to cancer, if those dogs have healthy immune systems they will never manifest the disease. The same can be said of many diseases - a healthy immune system should be able to combat anything that comes its way. Heart or other problems due to structural anomalies are of course a different story....although as Matthew noted (and the "Error of the Millenium" article discusses thoroughly), HD, which was commonly thought to be a physical, genetic condition, is now considered by many to be more environmental - like cancer, a dog may be predisposed to it, but if it is healthy, fed right, raised in a healthy environment, etc. it may never manifest the condition.
Immune function is thought to be hereditary - which is why dogs with generalized demodectic mange should not be bred (demodex is a sign of a compromised immune system). So we get back to breeding practices....and it can be extremely difficult to say if a dog is immune-compromised or not. If a dog gets localized demodex and is dipped, and the problem clears up, we do not know if that dog's immune system could have overcome the mite without help; thus we have no indication of the immune status. A dog that gets localized demodex that is not treated, which resolves, can certainly be said to have a healthy immune system (at that time....and of course immune function is an ever-changing thing). Cancer and hypothyroidism may not show up until the dog is 4,5,6 years of age - after it has sired or whelped several litters. This is why pedigree study is so important when planning a breeding - both depth (ancestors) and width (full and half siblings). And even so, it is still always a gamble! I'll echo Matthew's sentiment - it's a wonder we have a breed at all!
I just want to comment on one thing (surprise!
)I heartily agree, and would include over-vaccination and over-medication in this list as well. Combined, these elements can have a devastating effect on the immune system as a whole - and many of the diseases that we are seeing today (in dogs of all breeds, and in people) are the end result of a weak or compromised immune system.
Hypothyroidism in adult dogs is usually the result of immune system deficiencies. Many believe that while certain dogs are prone to cancer, if those dogs have healthy immune systems they will never manifest the disease. The same can be said of many diseases - a healthy immune system should be able to combat anything that comes its way. Heart or other problems due to structural anomalies are of course a different story....although as Matthew noted (and the "Error of the Millenium" article discusses thoroughly), HD, which was commonly thought to be a physical, genetic condition, is now considered by many to be more environmental - like cancer, a dog may be predisposed to it, but if it is healthy, fed right, raised in a healthy environment, etc. it may never manifest the condition.
Immune function is thought to be hereditary - which is why dogs with generalized demodectic mange should not be bred (demodex is a sign of a compromised immune system). So we get back to breeding practices....and it can be extremely difficult to say if a dog is immune-compromised or not. If a dog gets localized demodex and is dipped, and the problem clears up, we do not know if that dog's immune system could have overcome the mite without help; thus we have no indication of the immune status. A dog that gets localized demodex that is not treated, which resolves, can certainly be said to have a healthy immune system (at that time....and of course immune function is an ever-changing thing). Cancer and hypothyroidism may not show up until the dog is 4,5,6 years of age - after it has sired or whelped several litters. This is why pedigree study is so important when planning a breeding - both depth (ancestors) and width (full and half siblings). And even so, it is still always a gamble! I'll echo Matthew's sentiment - it's a wonder we have a breed at all!
Marimat
Boxer Expert<br><img src="/forums/images/modpaw.gi
Autoimmune Thyroiditis and Canine Hypothyroidism
Hi board
I'm very pleased that JulieM responded to my post with information regarding these conditions as they relate to longevity.
You see, whereas we have our Cardiomyopathy, Valvular Stenoses and cancers as what see as the major causes of death in dogs in all reality they are not close to the top of the list.
The major cause of death in canines, worldwide, in the year 2000 was euthanasia. The average life expectancy of the modern dog is just 3.5 years. The major reason for euthansia is unwanted dogs. This is all breeds. Boxers included.
Dogs are usually unwanted due to real or imagined aberrant behaviour.
Why then is this relevant.
A visit to http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/behaviorandthyroid.htm will show some interesting studies done on the correlation between aberrant behaviour and Canine Hypothyroidism.
The study was done by leading US Vet Dr Jean W Dodds who is one of the worlds foremost authorities on CH and Canine Autoimmune Deficiency. I had the great pleasure to meet Dr Dodds when I attended a 3 day seminar given by her in Australia in 1998.
Anyway, the point is this. When you go to this site you are going to learn that very high percentages of dogs that have aberrant behaviours are also found to be hypothyroid. Aberrant behaviours include things like aggression, fearfulness, hyperactivity and/or seizures
I put seizures in bold because the correlation between CH and seizures has shown to be extremely high!! And I know many members here that have dogs that have seizures. Those that do would be well advised to follow up on their dogs condition after reading the information on the given website
Anyway. These aberrant behaviours are only 1 of the manifestations of CH. Others are things like
* Reproductive disease:
decreased libido, prolonged inter-oestrus intervals, reduced fertility
* Cardiovascular disease:
reduced myocardial contractility which may be associated with development of cardiac changes similar to dilated cardiomyopathy.
* Other endocrine diseases:
Hypothyroidism in association with concurrent diabetes mellitus, or hypoadrenocorticism (Addisons Disease) is not uncommon
* Musculoskeletal disease:
Myopathies and generalised muscle weakness are common
This is not to mention the metabolic, neurologic and/or dermatologic conditions that also can occur in CH
Now the thing is that all these "diseases" are often diagnosed as stand alone ailments and treated as such, often with very poor results. Dogs have been put to sleep on many occasions due to "diseases" that seem incurable or untreatable. The irony of the whole thing though is that while each disease can be diagnosed and treated as a stand alone malady, they are also symptomatic of one much bigger disease........and that is Canine Hypothyroidism.
So at times I wonder if we get to barking up the wrong tree when we endeavour to find the best, most genotypically sound animals for breeding. When you consider that many of the conditions that can be related to or are attributable to CH one can easily imagine that while CH itself won't kill a dog, the symptoms of it can and do. Often some of the conditions above can become intractable (incurable) but at the same time they are easily treatable and curable in other individuals.
So we revisit JulieM's example of Demodex. Many dogs have been put to sleep because this has seen to be out of control, but I wonder if anyone really looked hard enough at the possible underlying cause.
I don't think it's unfeasable to accept the possibility that Canine Hypothyroidism, or rather it's "by products" is indirectly a bigger killer than the diseases we know are potentially fatal.
It's especially interesting to note the passage I marked in bold as to Cardiomyopathy!!
Matthew
P.S. I agree 1000% with JulieM on the subject of over-vaccination. The principles of vaccination are the same for any mammal, yet we thrust yearly vaccs. on our dogs when we can make do with a lifetime immunity from one shot. Seems very illogical.
A parting thought on this.
Why does a 6 week old Great Dane puppy have the exact same dose of the exact same vaccination as a 6 week old Chihauhua puppy????? Someone is getting too little or too much perhaps
Matthew
Hi board
I'm very pleased that JulieM responded to my post with information regarding these conditions as they relate to longevity.
You see, whereas we have our Cardiomyopathy, Valvular Stenoses and cancers as what see as the major causes of death in dogs in all reality they are not close to the top of the list.
The major cause of death in canines, worldwide, in the year 2000 was euthanasia. The average life expectancy of the modern dog is just 3.5 years. The major reason for euthansia is unwanted dogs. This is all breeds. Boxers included.
Dogs are usually unwanted due to real or imagined aberrant behaviour.
Why then is this relevant.
A visit to http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/behaviorandthyroid.htm will show some interesting studies done on the correlation between aberrant behaviour and Canine Hypothyroidism.
The study was done by leading US Vet Dr Jean W Dodds who is one of the worlds foremost authorities on CH and Canine Autoimmune Deficiency. I had the great pleasure to meet Dr Dodds when I attended a 3 day seminar given by her in Australia in 1998.
Anyway, the point is this. When you go to this site you are going to learn that very high percentages of dogs that have aberrant behaviours are also found to be hypothyroid. Aberrant behaviours include things like aggression, fearfulness, hyperactivity and/or seizures
I put seizures in bold because the correlation between CH and seizures has shown to be extremely high!! And I know many members here that have dogs that have seizures. Those that do would be well advised to follow up on their dogs condition after reading the information on the given website
Anyway. These aberrant behaviours are only 1 of the manifestations of CH. Others are things like
* Reproductive disease:
decreased libido, prolonged inter-oestrus intervals, reduced fertility
* Cardiovascular disease:
reduced myocardial contractility which may be associated with development of cardiac changes similar to dilated cardiomyopathy.
* Other endocrine diseases:
Hypothyroidism in association with concurrent diabetes mellitus, or hypoadrenocorticism (Addisons Disease) is not uncommon
* Musculoskeletal disease:
Myopathies and generalised muscle weakness are common
This is not to mention the metabolic, neurologic and/or dermatologic conditions that also can occur in CH
Now the thing is that all these "diseases" are often diagnosed as stand alone ailments and treated as such, often with very poor results. Dogs have been put to sleep on many occasions due to "diseases" that seem incurable or untreatable. The irony of the whole thing though is that while each disease can be diagnosed and treated as a stand alone malady, they are also symptomatic of one much bigger disease........and that is Canine Hypothyroidism.
So at times I wonder if we get to barking up the wrong tree when we endeavour to find the best, most genotypically sound animals for breeding. When you consider that many of the conditions that can be related to or are attributable to CH one can easily imagine that while CH itself won't kill a dog, the symptoms of it can and do. Often some of the conditions above can become intractable (incurable) but at the same time they are easily treatable and curable in other individuals.
So we revisit JulieM's example of Demodex. Many dogs have been put to sleep because this has seen to be out of control, but I wonder if anyone really looked hard enough at the possible underlying cause.
I don't think it's unfeasable to accept the possibility that Canine Hypothyroidism, or rather it's "by products" is indirectly a bigger killer than the diseases we know are potentially fatal.
It's especially interesting to note the passage I marked in bold as to Cardiomyopathy!!
Matthew
P.S. I agree 1000% with JulieM on the subject of over-vaccination. The principles of vaccination are the same for any mammal, yet we thrust yearly vaccs. on our dogs when we can make do with a lifetime immunity from one shot. Seems very illogical.
A parting thought on this.
Why does a 6 week old Great Dane puppy have the exact same dose of the exact same vaccination as a 6 week old Chihauhua puppy????? Someone is getting too little or too much perhaps
Matthew
JulieM
Boxer Insane
Re: Autoimmune Thyroiditis and Canine Hypothyroidism
I'm going to print that out and frame it!!!!
I know of Dr. Dodds' association between CH and cardiomyopathy, which intrigued me - but isn't she speaking of true cardiomyopathy which has to do with physical change to the heart, and not Boxer "cardiomyopathy" which isn't really cardiomyopathy at all? Not that there couldn't still be a connection....it would be interesting to see if there is one!
About the different size dogs getting different doses of vaccine - that same question came up on an e-mail list I'm on a while ago, and the "vet's answer" was
The vet who answered happens to be holistically-minded, and she went on:
Which makes sense to me!
[Edited by JulieM on 03-12-2001 at 07:54 PM]
I'm going to print that out and frame it!!!!
I know of Dr. Dodds' association between CH and cardiomyopathy, which intrigued me - but isn't she speaking of true cardiomyopathy which has to do with physical change to the heart, and not Boxer "cardiomyopathy" which isn't really cardiomyopathy at all? Not that there couldn't still be a connection....it would be interesting to see if there is one!
About the different size dogs getting different doses of vaccine - that same question came up on an e-mail list I'm on a while ago, and the "vet's answer" was
The vet who answered happens to be holistically-minded, and she went on:
Which makes sense to me!
[Edited by JulieM on 03-12-2001 at 07:54 PM]
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