Gets over-excited and escalates into aggression

[slwoody]

Our 5-month male has started escalating into an aggressive/fighting state with other dogs. It's like Dr. Jekel/Mr. Hyde because 99.9% of the time he's a sweet, gentle sucky baby who only wants to cuddle (with a face that could eat my fave shoes and get away with it ). He's been well socalized from day one and has been exposed to all varieties of dogs on and off the leash.

He plays really well for a period, but when he gets over-excited he goes off the hook and get aggressive to the point of having to break up a fight. So far my husband and I have been taking him away from the other dogs, putting him on his side (not an alpha-roll so much as getting him to go down and holding him there until he settles). We haven't been scolding him, but trying to remove him from the situation until he's calm and then letting him back out to play. We thought he would eventually learn to play at an even level, but it doesn't seem to be getting any better. If anything it's happening more frequently and with less warning. He even tried to take on my best friend's 165 lb newfoundland last night! (I admire the spunk, but still don't approve ) We seperated them and once he calmed down they played quite well together the rest of the evening, but we were constantly on the look out for signs in an effort to catch him BEFORE he gets unbalanced.

I don't have any experience with this kind of behaviour. Is there anything we should be doing differently? We debated at great length about getting him neutered and decided in favour about 3 weeks ago. We noticed an improvement at first, but now he's been in 4 scraps in the last 3 days so now I'm worried again. I fear he's going to get hurt by picking a battle with the wrong dog. Any comments? (sorry - windy message )

 

[kpowell]

are you sure he's becoming too aggressive and not just playing? My Stella plays with my lab and the neighbors think they're fighting all the time. (They even told me that my dogs were fighting!) They can really look viscious with teeth showing and growling something awful! They will run like crazy while biting each other the whole length of the yard, and then stop and pant and catch their breaths, and then take off again.

 

[ELubas]

Agree with last post-when it happens does the other dog try to run away and your boy pursues, does the other dog take exception and fight back and it escalates? My boy does not like to play rough so will correct a dog who does if calming signals do not work and a few times that escalated a little and Fraze was labeled the "instigator" even though really the other dog was quite rude. Now my girl is a scrapper and some dogs like to play rough with her, but I watch for the ones that seem to be trying to escape her and I get her out of there. Really depends on the dog. Also, your boy no longer has the benefit of "puppy license" so he may just be getting a message from other dogs to knock it off. I think removing him is fine and then when he calms down go back and give him another chance. At five months I doubt this is aggression as much as crazy annoying puppy syndrome Good luck

 

[marciafinn]

My two are similar to the previous post. Mason likes to play but if things get too rough, he will use calming signals to try to get the play to end. If it does not end, he will put the other dog in it's place. We have had some rude comments as well since he is large for a boxer so obviously it is his fault.

Penny likes to play very rough complete with the growling. Mason knows she is playing and they are fine but we have been cautious when introducing her to new dogs. My neighbors think we are nuts to allow them to play like that since they still think they are fighting. We have only had her play in controlled situations, no dog parks, and she is okay but we do have to keep an eye on her to ensure that she is not the one missing the signals.

 

[ELubas]

My two are similar to the previous post. Mason likes to play but if things get too rough, he will use calming signals to try to get the play to end. If it does not end, he will put the other dog in it's place. We have had some rude comments as well since he is large for a boxer so obviously it is his fault.

Penny likes to play very rough complete with the growling. Mason knows she is playing and they are fine but we have been cautious when introducing her to new dogs. My neighbors think we are nuts to allow them to play like that since they still think they are fighting. We have only had her play in controlled situations, no dog parks, and she is okay but we do have to keep an eye on her to ensure that she is not the one missing the signals.

WOW! Yours and mine sound identical Everyone is always wary of Fraze but Nysa is the one you have to look out for

 

[slwoody]

I wish he were just playing

But this is another level. It's now happening more frequently and with less warning. We tried taking him to our doggy day care hoping play with a large group of stable dogs would show him appropriate behaviour. When we picked him up he had been taken out of the large room and was at the front cash with the Owner of the facility.

She advised he played well in a small group of dogs, but as soon as they introduced more dogs and the excitement/stress level increased even slightly his back went right up and he tried to start fights. What I find really strange is that he won't take direction from the older dogs. He doesn't seem to understand the hierarchy and when older dogs try to scold inappropriate behaviour he doesn't back down and learn the lesson like most puppies. He actually gets defensive and tries to fight them.

To our recollection he's never been bitten, but it almost appears as if he's been attacked/bullied and if a dog even looks at him the wrong way now he takes a preemptive strike and goes on the offense. I even saw him growl at another dog who came up to greet him and that's never happened before.

They recommended a behaviorist and I've already left a message for her, but it's Thanksgiving weekend in Canada so don't expect to hear back from her for a few days. She was able to help another dog in a similar situation so I'm hopeful we can resolve this because he's still so young. In the meantime poor Linus isn't welcome at the day care any more :( He agitates the other dogs and makes the group unstable.

 

[ELubas]

Not all dog are comfortable in dog parks and daycares. Like people, they come with different personalities. My girl is very dog aggressive and would never do well in those venues. By the way, I got her at nine weeks, socialized the heck out of her, and she never, I can promise you, "got beat up". She is simply a dominant , pushy girl. So I had to go a dofferent way with her. She does good in obedience and does well with most dogs if they can meet very slowly and in a controlled fashion. She has a number of dog friends now but it took time and patience. A behavorist is a great idea. We saw one and it really helped. My girl is 18 mos now and I never let her loose in off leash areas as she can not be trusted, but that is who she is. They are dogs after all and though we all want to have the happy go lucky pup sometimes it takes a little more time. I am sorry your boy was put out of daycare but I bet not all his reactions were unprovoked, and I would venture to guess there are any number of other dogs acting act. Just because your boy does not take it from them does not mean he is all to blame. Maybe he did fine with the smaller group because things were not chaotic. When the group got big it could have scared him, stressed him, etc. Do not assume that just because they are all there together that they are all "stable" dogs. Tiyr boy is young and has huge potetnil. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise. He is a punk right now and probably does need guidance but read some of the threads here-he is not the first, nor will he be the last, to be thrown out of doggy day care. I bet my boy Fraze would do just fine with him (he was a punk in his prime so he can relate to them ), and so will alot of other dogs. Please let us know how it goes with the behavorist.

 

[ELubas]

Tiyr boy is young and has huge potetnil.

I really need to type slower Anyway, your boy is young and has huge potential, is what I meant to write :o

 

[dbetz]

I can completely relate - my 5 month old female is exactly the same way. She is very dominant and gets pretty agressive - but only with other dogs. We did all the puppy socialization and they asked us after the 3rd week (she was 12 weeks old at the time) not to bring her back. We are now trying to socialize her with adult dogs (with the trainer) but it still is not looking like it will work. She can read other dogs very well and can "sense" the weaker dogs and goes straight for them. Our Trainer explained this is "who she is" - we can and will continue to work with her but will most likely need to accept her limitations and will not be able to let her off leash...:( But since she is the prettiest, funniest and most loving Boxer ever (tied with her calm demeanored brother) I think we will keep her around.

 

[ELubas]

I can completely relate - my 5 month old female is exactly the same way. She is very dominant and gets pretty agressive - but only with other dogs. We did all the puppy socialization and they asked us after the 3rd week (she was 12 weeks old at the time) not to bring her back. We are now trying to socialize her with adult dogs (with the trainer) but it still is not looking like it will work. She can read other dogs very well and can "sense" the weaker dogs and goes straight for them. Our Trainer explained this is "who she is" - we can and will continue to work with her but will most likely need to accept her limitations and will not be able to let her off leash...:( But since she is the prettiest, funniest and most loving Boxer ever (tied with her calm demeanored brother) I think we will keep her around.

My girl too... We have found that if she is introduced very, very slowly-on lead walks, side by side walks, then allow to sniff, that eventually she will accept this dog as a playmate in most cases. But an extremely shy or timid dog is not a good match for off leash play, nor are small dogs as she is just too rough. At this point she has half a dozen friends she is very good with-adores actually-but the newer issue we are workin goin is now she will defend any perceived affront to her "pack". She has been a real challenge, but like your pup, is fabulous with people and dogs she knows. I so agree with your trainer-they are who they are...