Fainting, any help please.

[EricF]

Well, I've seen this before, and it is a sad story. It happened 1 year ago today. She had just finished chasing a cat in the back yard (sorry cat lovers, but she enjoyed it...and never harmed the stray cats that got into our yard), and came into the house. Her back lags wobbled...and she collapsed. I raced her to an Emergency Vet Clinic...but by the time I got her there, she was fine. The vet could find nothing obviously wrong with her and sent her home with us with a recommendation to take it easy and to have her fully checked out a first opportunity.

On Tuesday (after Memorial day), she came up to me in my home office and nudged my arm...which told me she wanted to play Frisbee. We went out back and I got maybe five throws in when it happened again. I immediately raced her to another vet who specialized in Internal Medicine. They ran an EKG and there was a heart armithmia (sp?). So they did an Echo-Cardiogram. There was a cancerous tumor on her heart. The vet diagnosed it to be Harmongio Sarcoma and said that surgery and radiation were out of the question because of it's location. So we gave Chemo a try but with no result, and 2 weeks later the tumor had grown another 4 mm in size. The vet gave her 2-3 months to live saying there was nothing she could do for Belle.

I refused to accept this answer, and did some research. There are those who believe that the cure for cancer has been known since 1953. That cancer is not some misterious desease, but is a vitamin deficency desease like Skurvy or Polagra (sorry...my spelling is horrible). I figured, what the heck...got nothing to loose, so I ordered the vitamin (only place I could find it was on the web) and ordered the book on it, "A World Without Cancer" by G. Edward Griffin. You can buy it at Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...0851000/sr=1-3/ref=sc_b_3/104-5473209-9719901

Or from the author's web site:

http://www.realityzone.com/worwitcan.html

A month later, we had another echo-cardiogram (Belle's 3rd) and the tumor's growth had slowed...it was only 2mm larger after a full month. We got more agressive with the B-17 teatments.

Fast forward to April of this year...Belle was STILL alive and doing GREAT!!! Shortly after this...she started to feel below the weather so I took her to the vet who was absolutely AMAZED that she was still alive!!! He told me that it was virtually unheard of for a dog with Harmongio Sarcoma to live a year past diagnoses...and extremely rare for them to live past 6 months...and we were sitting at 11 months!! He figured she was suffering from alergies (I had forgotten about her hay fever) and so we took her home and treated her for alergies, but her appetite dropped off and she refused to eat. I initially thought she had a blockage in her digestive system because she had gotten into the trash. We finally decided that we'd better get an internal check-up to determine if she did have a blockage, but it turned out that it wasn't a blockage after all.

After the tests, it was determined that the tumor remained on her heart. It had not grown very much...but it still remained, and it had stressed Belle's heart to the point of failure.

Now, at this point, I think I should point out something that I read in the book mentioned above....although B-17 destroys cancer cells, it does not remove tumors. This is because healthy cells layer over cancer cells when a tumor is growing. Even if all of the cancer cells are destroyed, the healthy cells will remain, and will result in a benign tumor (benign breast tumors are examples of a cancerous tumor that was destroyed by the human
body, and the healthy cells keep layering). So, the fact that the tumor didn't appreciably grow tells me that I beat the cancer. I'll bet a years salary that if a biopsy were performed on that tumor, it would be found benign, however I refused to desecrate Belle's body for this.

So, a benign tumor remained on her heart and resulted in cardiac failure of the right side of Belle's heart. This resulted in a fluid backup inside her chest, which was putting pressure on her digestive system. We had the fluid drained and she was given some medicine to try and control this condition. A week later, we had to have it drained again. A week later...again. A week ago, she began to get fluid backup in her abdomen too. This whole time Belle continued to lose weight. At the beginning of April, she weighed 53 pounds. Two weeks ago, she was down to 43 pounds. I think she's probably lost at least another 5 pounds since then...she was nothing but skin and bones with a bloated chest and abdomen. The Vet told my wife and I that Belle was suffering. That there was nothing more he could do. That she needed to be put down. So Yesterday at 4:15pm, our Beloved Belle was put to sleep. It was the hardest decision and day in my entire life.

So...what can you do about your dog? Get Sophie to a specialist and get an echo-cardiogram done...because I'll bet my paycheck that she' having heart problems. I pray it's not cancer...because it's a tough and expensive fight...and if she's got a tumor on her heart...it may all be for naught.

My prayers are with you...we miss our Belle more than I thought possible...and we are still greaving heavily!! If the picture posted...it was taken at C+8 months (Cancer+8 months).

Later,

 

[monty'smum]

I just wanted to say a massive thank you for your replies and information.

Eric, I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to reply and share your tragic story, when you must be so distressed with your loss. What a dreadful time you have had and my heart goes out to you and your wife. Belle certainly picked the best with owners like you. You didn't say how old she was but from the picture of your gorgeous girl she was taken too soon.
Thank you for the sites you posted. I have never heard of B-17 treatment. I remember my dear Owain who never had a days illness, apart from a slight cough once, taking him to the vet with what I thought was an eye infection. He was diagnosed with a cancerous tumour on his sinesses. I don't know if this might have helped him but the vet was very reluctant to treat him in any way due to his age (nearly 14). It was inoperable anyway so we simply let nature take its course, keeping him as comfortable as possible till the end was inevitable. I didn't think it was possible to feel so much grief. I still shed a tear when I think of him.

My sister is away for a few days, but when she gets back I will show her all your replies and we'll have to have a good think about where we go from here, Monty included.
I'll let you know any updates.

 

[EricF]

Sorry...fogot.

Belle was 7 Years 50 Weeks old. Her birthday in June 8.

I will say this...her death was not in vain. Every boxer I ever own again will get B-17 their whole life...to prevent Cancer (100mg per day). My Father started taking it and his skin cancer has dried up and vanished (I'm not kidding! He had two skin tumors that dried up and fell off in about 5 weeks after he started taking it). My wife's funny looking/fast growing black moles have dried up and fell off too. I'm a *FIRM* believer that this stuff really works. The book mentioned above goes into great detail as to how it works and why it has been shunned and even outlawed by the medical community (no money in it).

Anyways...thanks for the simpathy...it's greatly appeciated. It's been that hardest thing I've had to endure in my life since the death of my brothers, some 25 years ago.

Later,

 

[JRHBoxers]

Cardio-myopathy

Unfortunately, our Rescue has had to deal with several Cardio dogs in the past few years. We have had everything from a 5 month old pup whose condition was so bad that it was put down at the University where the cardiac studies are being done. I personally had a foster who was diagnosed as an EXTREMELY bad and fast moving case, and he is still alive - almost 2 years past his life expectancy for cardio.

There is medicine that can be given to help the disease but there is no cure, surgurical or otherwise.

If may be of little comfort if this is what is diagnosed, but the dogs are in little or no pain and simply die. Very quick.

The best way to decide if it is cardiomyopathy is for the vet/cardiologist to do a 24 hour Holtor monitor. EKG leads at placed at various places around the dog's chest and a "flack" jacket is placed on the dog to hold the wires in place along with with recording devise. I was babysitting a friends 10 year old Boxer this weekend and I had to put a Holtor monitor on him to see if there were any changes from last year. The jacket is designed so that it really does not interfere with activity. Except I thought for sure that he was going to either tear up the jacket or the dog door every time he went through.

My prayers are with you, your sister and babies. I have two of my own, numerous foster babies around - and they all own a piece of my heart.

 

[JRHBoxers]

I have now gone back to the Ameerican Boxer Club site and have found the information that you should certainly read. The site is
http://clubs.akc.org/abc/boxer-health.htm

There are several articles posted on Cardiomyopathy. Most are written by or co-written with Dr. Kate Meurs who is the cardiologist at Ohio State University who is leading the study of Cardiomyopathy in Boxers. Her information is very informative and fairly easy to understand through the medical lingo.

The one thing you need to remember is that even if either one of them is diagnosed, that does not mean an immediate death sentence. Their life expectancy may not be a full 10 years, but you can make the most of the time you have with them. REMEMBER - no one has ever told them that they are sick and they feel NO pain. You just need to control their actiity levels and ENJOY THEM while they are here.

I hope this information helps.

Jane

 

[Albie]

My regular vet mentioned hypoglycemia as a possible cause of Lacy's problem (although he seems to always go back to her heart). But, maybe this is Lacy's problem. She is on the thin side (only 47 pounds) and can go all day without eating (then at night scarfs up her breakfast and then wants her dinner too!) She is also very active (then again, what boxer isn't). If she has another "episode" (and I hope she doesn't), I think I'll give the Karo syrup a try! Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[monty'smum]

Once again, many many thanks for your replies. The information you've supplied is invaluable as is all other possible causes.
Well its now been some time since Sophies two episodes. My sister and family have been away the last few days. They got back last night and when I spoke to my sister she said Sophie had had a great time. Racing up and down the beaches, in the sea etc. No further occurences.
Monty was so excited this morning when I said we were going to Sophies, he so misses her when either of us goes away. We arrived at their house and Sophie came charging down the stairs obviously delighted to see Monty too. However within two minutes she passed out again. This time she lost control of her bladder, maybe she had before but being outside we never even thought about it. Again she was only out about 10-15 seconds. This time I went with my sister to the vets. He checked her out again. Said in his opinion she was in tip top condition, her heart was no different to before and with the ecg results felt loathe at this stage to recommend referal to a heart specialist. He mentioned all possible heart conditions which you given me here but said her heart rythems did not suggest this. He hasn't ruled out that she is fitting as it usually starts at this age. He said that the occasions would probally increase if this was the case with longer periods of unconsiousness. He wants my sister to keep a diary of all events to see if any pattern emerges.
Finally he said if she wanted he would be happy to refer her to a specialist but to take account of what the costs would be. I hate to say it but this is exactly what we both have to think of
For the time being we have to go with his suggestions. I am going to take Monty for an examination just to see if there are any initial concerns for him. I'll let you know any updates and in , the meantime thanks once again.

 

[bktuleymd]

fainting in boxers

I have the same problem with Alex, my male Boxer. You mentioned that your dog had an EKG. This only records the heart rhythm for six seconds. To rule out a cardiac arrhythmia, you need a Holter Monitor which records every heartbeat for 24 hours.

Alex will faint for 2-3 minutes while exercising. He is unresponsive with eyes open, but "no one is home" look to them. His body is limp and sometimes his breathing stops for 20 -30 seconds. There is no seizure activity. One time he was pulseless, I gave him some CPR. He will slowly wake up, but sometimes it may be 30 minutes before he returns to normal.

Boxer cardiomyopathies can cause arrhythmias. So can aortic stenosis. Diagnosis can be difficult, but there are good anti-arrhythmics that can help.

It is a scary thing when your beloved dog does this. It is especially bad when you are away from home and are panicking at the thought of trying to carry a 70 lb unconscious dog back to the car in order to rush him to the vet. I am a physician who treats humans everyday without blinking an eye, but it is an entirely different story when it is my spoiled-rotten baby dog.

 

[Krikkit]

Sue, this must be so worrying, I hope you find out the reasons soon :( I know hypoglycemia was mentioned - sometimes that can be a sign of deeper problems, diabeties comes to mind - there is an overview of this here:
http://geocities.com/Petsburgh/Zoo/1224/hypoglycemia.html

We are finally getting the Boxerworld Links pages together and there are many links on heart problems here:
http://boxerworld.com/links/Veterinary_Sites/Heart_Problems/

It may be worth reading this article on Thyroid problems and seizures (even though Sophie seems as if she if fainting...):
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/Thyroid.htm

A long shot could be an allergic reaction....

Will be thinking of Sophie.

Sharon