expecting puppies!!!!!

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BeckyNC

Boxer Insane
I can understand how you might feel attacked, but just know that breeding without proper health testing and preparation is a VERY touchy subject here. I am happy to hear you have done some reading and prep work for when your girl whelps the litter. From your first post, it sounded as if you were not quite sure what to do and that is one reason people reacted as they did. The other reason, as I stated, is breeding truly should not be done unless both dogs have been extensively health tested and have been finished in the show ring (please someone correct me if I have not gotten the showing part right). The purpose of breeding is to improve the breed. Boxers are prone to a number of heart breaking health problems. Insufficient health testing sets future owners of the pups up for $$$ expenditures when their doggies get sick or premature death, which is so sad.

Please do consider having Harley neutered. Neutering is an effective way to avoid health problems and excessive marking. I can't speak to all of the advantages as I have a female.
 

Vela

Boxer Insane
I warned you that you would get negative responses because what you did was not responsible. That doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you an uneducated about this specific subject person. I did not bash you in any way and took nothing for gospel. I said MAY have eaten her puppies, since you don't really know if she did or didn't. Taking her from a bad situtation and giving her a better life is great and I commned you for that, but...perhaps you just don't realize the genetic and health problems within this breed. Breeding dogs even for ONE litter need to be health tested for hips, heart, thyroid, and other problems because they can and do pass these on the and puppies can have a lot of problems, some not living long lives. Would you wish this on prospective puppy buyers or owners of your puppies, or even the puppy you choose to keep??? It's not to bash you, but what you have done is irresponsible to this breed in general. Helth testing is necessary to try to breed OUT the health and genetic problems in the boxer breed. By not doing so you and others who breed even just one litter have the potential to create other dogs with health issues and this in general weakens the breed. Unless you spay and neuter the puppies yourself that you are breeding out of this litter, you are sending out puppies into the world who COULD be bred by people who said they would spay and neuter, but don't. (I personally know people who did this) Then you have added to the already overpopulation of the breed and to the genetic gene pool with dogs who may or may not have genetic and/or health issues to pass on. If even one or two of those puppies just bred have health issues and are used by others to breed, much like you have done this one time, look how many puppies it can make??? That is the real crux of the problem with "breeding because you love your dog and want one just like them". It's not you personally, it's not that you are a bad person, it is that SO many people do just what you are doing, just one litter and it can and does create so many health problems and overpopulation. If you truly love the boxer breed, it seems logical that you would want fewer health problems in the breed and fewer dogs without homes. Sure, the puppies you bred may all end up in good homes, BUT, what if they don't? what if they are used to breed like you have done and create more problems?? That is the bigger picture that people are trying to explain to you. You want one cute puppy but you have added to the whole big problem facing our beloved breed. I am not bashing you, I am just trying to explain WHY people get so upset and why breeding without having ALL of the proper health testing done (yes it's expensive) and having your dogs evluated by judges and/or Reputable breeders to ensure that your dog does indeed have the best possible attributes to pass on is important. If everyone bred just one litter from their backyard pets.....the boxer breed would be destroyed as we know it and its already happening. Please try to see past your own desire and the fact you are offended to what we are trying to say. It's also very important to have a reputable breeder mentor you and help you in case there are problems. Nobody here can help you with that if there ARE problems. I really do wish you the best of luck with the puppies but it was an irresponsible thing to do whether you choose to see that or not. Building a nice whelping box and taking good care of the mother is great, but it doesn't change the fact of adding more puppies to the world that do not have properly health tested or evluated parents. You are mistaken, I would say it to you in person. I would say it to anyone only to try to explain what is happening to the breed. People don't understand what they are doing to it=/ I am not preaching, I am only trying to get you to see why it is important and why it gets people so upset. I hope both mom and pups do well and you are able to find them all good homes but I also hope that you will have spay/neuter agreement on the pups. Another note, no REPUTABLE breeder would use your male unless he was evaluated by professionals for conformation standard and health tested, and most likely unless his parents were health tested as well. There may be some who would, but not the right kind.

This is the truth of the matter and there is much to learn here. Breeding is a VERY big deal, even for just one litter. It may not be the advice you are looking for but it is the truth. I hope you can get past the defensive to see what it is I'm trying to explain. I really am not trying to attack you. I would say this to anyone who did the same. I did not know these things either until I did more research. Please don't take it personally but rather use it as an avenue to find out so much more.

I really do wish you the best of luck with the mom and pups and I hope that they are all healthy.
 
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haleyandmark

Boxer Insane
something i can't understand is why people come here for opinions and then when they get them and they're not what they expected, they think they are being 'bashed'.

like everyone has said, breeding is a horribly sensitive subject here on this board because of the fact that most everyone here is doing nothing but trying to better the Boxer breed, which i think is something that anyone who plans on breeding should be concerned with.

Most of the people giving advice are professionals when it comes to anything about Boxers and give outstanding replies, whether or not they are something you want to hear.

"I'm sure you not the first person to save a dog from a horrible life and then breed her."
- you are 100% right about this, she is not the first person, nor will she be the last; and that is one of the problems.

i'm glad your litter turned out okay and if you did it the right way, i commend you, if not, please have your dog fixed. this is for the better of the breed, if breeders don't consider trying to better the breed with health testing, etc., they should just simply not be breeding.
 
unbelievable.

First of all, I want all of you to know that I do understand what you are telling me. I am not disputing your arguments of unhealty dogs being breed, (I agree) nor the over population of unwanted homeless dogs. (I agree) My mother is a member of the local animal rights org. and so I have been educated on this subject. I see that most of you know your stuff and I commend you. Some- I believe are just trying to be rude because you can. I don't know that anything I say now will change your mind on our situation. You are always gonna peg me with one of your labels on this site from now on. That's fine. I know that how I'm taking care of my pets is excellent. Both dogs are healthy and had evalutions. They are both reg. with akc. See you don't know our situation. I can see that people on here would rather pro. breeders do the breeding because they know more about what they are doing but I'm sure it's also because there are pro.breeders on here. I do understand about keeping the breed pure, but you can't spay and neuter all the boxers, mixed ones, yes, but if they(pure,healthy) are registered with the akc. and cleared to be breed and the puppies have homes then I don't see a problem. No one has total control over what happens to the puppies after they leave. I know that is what is trying to be done and we can all play a part in controlling the problems that arise in breeding but no one can control it all. I just want all of you to know that I respect your views and appreciate the love you are showing for the animals and I do see your concern. Please just know that we are doing our best and that all our puppies will go to good homes. We do have most promised (to only people we trust) and most we're before they ever breed. No, I haven't had some snobby judge tell me anything about my Harley, I don't need that. some of this high dog society is stuff is ridiculous. I think a good breeder would know if Harley was "breed worthy" if you must. LOL The people that are taking our pups are friends and they just want a good pet to love because we've bragged so much on ours and they have seen how good ours are and most have had boxers and want another. I do take the health and well being of the animals seriously but not this "my dogs better than yours" mentality. You guys can quote and remark whatever. But like I said. I respect your views and will thank you for your advice. I don't like the way I was judged. Surely that's not what this place was intended for. And if it was then I'm in the wrong place because I don't treat people that way. I will never do that to anyone on here if I decide to stay. If I have some advice for someone then I will give it. If I have a different opinion than someone and I can't think of anything nice to say then I will say nothing.
Well, to all of those that private mess. me with the kind words and cautioning me on the sensitivity of some, I thank you and I have now learned alot. For those of you that may really care of the well being of our puppies and dogs I will keep you posted. Oh yes, and by the way, just so you know, we are telling the new owners of all the puppies that for any reason they decide (god forbid) or for any reason they cannot keep their boxer to bring he/she back to us. This was decided before. Maddie is due Today. Halloween. So she's not late yet. Please be kind and understand. We just love our dogs. That's it.
 

sammy28

Boxer Pal
Puppies Due

HELLO,i have been a boxer breeder foe i6 yrs now and i have never let people other then a vet tell me when i should spay or fix my dogs.i do not breed inless my dogs are proven in the show ring first.but it dont give me a right to tell someone else what to do.i believe if you dog has been tested for all health problems and has been checked by a breeder that shows. and you have done a few yrs of researching on the breed ,breeding is not bad,but you never breed just beacause you think your dog looks good that is awfull.i have rescued litters of puppies beacause of byb doing just this they wanted a puppy then the rest dont sell this is the saddest thing i have had to do those poor puppies did not ask to be here.so before breeding think about it real hard are you ready to keep 4 puppies for their whole life beacause they didnt sell.its alot of work and money if done right.you donr make money if your a real breeder.please dont breed ust to keep a puppy,and if the dog was rescued by you and was treated bad SHE SHOULD OF NEVER BEEN BRED!!!!!
 

harley03

Completely Boxer Crazy
They are both reg. with akc.

The American Kennel Club (ie. AKC) is just a registration board. They do nothing but give you a piece of paper stating that your dog is purebred. The topic has been discussed here many times, AKC registration does not mean your dog is of breeding quality, nor does it mean they are free of hereditary, genetic disease .

if they(pure,healthy) are registered with the akc. and cleared to be breed and the puppies have homes then I don't see a problem.

Your exactly right. But "cleared to be bred" should mean being evaluated in conformation, having all necessary health testing including Holther Monitor (may be done yearly), Echocardiogram - for Subaortic Stenosis (after the age of 2), thyroid profile, x-ray and OFA certification for hip displasia and a brucellosis test. I think I got them all :) !!

No, I haven't had some snobby judge tell me anything about my Harley

Using judges to evaluate your dogs conformation has nothing to do with being snobby. Conformation judges have been educated on the characteristics of the breed, they know when they are looking at a dog that is characteristic of the breed. Not only the color they are, or how cute they look, but how they are put together (their skeletal structure, teeth, the way they move).

I do take the health and well being of the animals seriously but not this "my dogs better than yours" mentality.

I don't think anyone who posted has that mentality. For example, I didn't get my dog from a champion, health tested dog. And he isn't even CKC registered. I had absolutely no clue what any of that actually meant before I started reading about the breed. I have learned alot in the past year and a half about boxers, and I want to help others learn as well. I don't and didn't plan on breeding our male because I have no clue what he could pass on to a litter of puppies, so he is neutered ;) .

We just love our dogs. That's it.

And that goes for every member of this forum.

Hope you decide to stick around, I know you'll learn alot here.
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
sweetkneez23 said:
Like I said we are not breeding boxers. we are having 1 liter. For that matter, I thought that's what this site was for?? To learn and to help others. but wait, maybe I was wrong.

Wrong, and not just by a little bit. I wonder how you feel qualified to make any statement at all about "what Boxerworld is for" - that would seem to me to be the sole domain of its owner and creator, whose rules for this forum are *very* clear. From Boxerworld Rules:
Topics inappropriate for discussion on this site include:
- discussion of breeding practices that would be deemed by most to be unethical or irresponsible. This would include, but is not limited to: breeding white Boxers, breeding young dogs, breeding untested dogs, breeding for any purpose other than to improve the breed and/or your line). Back yard breeders and commercial breeders are not welcome.

Sweetkneez - you don't think you are a 'breeder' but you're breeding your dog. Sorry, even 1 litter makes you a breeder and subject to ethical considerations. The sort of information you should be reading is here:
http://www.boxerworld.com/breeders/
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59482
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11396
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61354
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/byb/
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/excuses/
And last but not least:
http://http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/top6/


ok_boxer said:
I came here for advice and was bashed as well for breeding my dogs.

You don't like the way you are judged here? Well, you should have read the rules (that you agreed to, btw, when you requested membership of this forum). Boxerworld takes a firm position on ethical, responsible breeding practices - and that involves the breeding only of animals that have been evaluated for correct conformation, temperament and free of the serious genetic disorders that affect the breed. You want somewhere to brag about your ignorance and irresponsibility in breeding untested dogs, maybe post a few cutesy pictures of the results? Well, you're on the wrong website.

The rules here are clear - the promotion of unethical and backyard breeding practices is not allowed on this site. There is a single reason this thread is still here, and that is to provide education. All the information you need to understand what consitutes responsible/irresponsible breeding, and why it is so important is here in this thread. It is entirely your choice whether or not you take that information on board and educate yourself accordingly.

This thread has run its course, and is now closed.
 
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