Elevated bowls

[Nikki2002]

We free feed too, Sammi eats as much as she likes which isn't much. By the way I checked the standard for Boxers, because I always thought they were deep/barrel chested dogs and the standard says that they "should not be barrel chested" so I hope that helps in the discussion.
Also our Boxer has always been a slow eater, but our Dobe eats fast and then wants to play afterward which we try to keep him settled. The fast and furious eating is more of a concern to me than elevated feeding too.

 

[Nikki2002]

Sorry JulieM I posted before I saw your reply. It does appear that Boxers are not considered Barrell chested and I believe that perhaps deep chested describes the dogs better, but the Doberman Pinscher is deep chested. Check this link:

http://www.dpca-publiceducation.org/PECEmergBLOAT.html

(qoute)
A dog's breed and age also play a role in GDV. "Deep-chested, large breeds, such as Weimaraners, Doberman pinschers, German shepherds, standard poodles, Great Danes,
Saint Bernards, Irish setters, and Gordon setters, are affected most commonly. Shar-peis, basset hounds, and springer spaniels are the medium-size breeds that may be predisposed,"
says Dr. Greenfield. "GDV can occur in any age dog, but more commonly it occurs in middle-aged to older dogs." (qoute)

Just wanted to show this info. Thanks

 

[Thomas Liggin]

I've been somewhat amused following this thread. And, I was thinking along the lines of what Julie just said or quoted about how wolves eat in the wild. Yes, their prey ends up on the ground, but some will feed off the top of the carcass, while others feed at the ground level. Some may feed while lying down, but they probably would have to stand to tear the flesh apart.

But it is also true that while most if not all of the breeds are descendents of wolves, they are so far removed from wolves that you cannot always make a legitimate argument by using wolves and their habits to buttress any argument.

There is no process of natural selection among domesticated dogs that exists in the wild. Many dogs are bred that would not have bred were they to live in a wild pack. It is not survival of the fittest, where the weaker do not survive harsh environmental conditions.

Today's dogs are a far cry from their ancestors so any pro or con comparison is far from reliable.

From my understanding, bloat is caused by torsion, not swallowing air. Torsion is a condition where the stomach or intestine twists around and results in a "blockage", like a link of sausage. The food or material trapped in this portion produces gas which cannot escape because it is trapped. The gas causes the surrounding tissue to expand like a baloon. It must also affect the circulation to that portion of the digestive tract.

In any case, I'm somewhat dumbfounded that there is so much hostility over an honest difference of opinion. Take a few deep breaths, calm down, and realize that each of us wants what is best for our dogs.

Indy eats from a bowl on the floor and stands to eat. When we had Afghans, every one would lie down to eat from their bowl, but drank standing up.


Tom

 

[ssleighter]

I needed a yes AND no vote. My babies water bowls are elevated, but they don't like their food bowls elevated. Go figure?!

 

[Alisha Mobley]

The Boxer has a well-sprung (arched) chest/ribs. This picture shows the difference (scroll down):
http://www.geocities.com/juliembw/ct_113.jpg

The link didn't work...is it just me?

But it is also true that while most if not all of the breeds are descendents of wolves, they are so far removed from wolves that you cannot always make a legitimate argument by using wolves and their habits to buttress any argument.

When it comes to feeding/eating habits, I think looking at wolves is best. From what I've learned dogs and wolves have nearly identical digestive systems, their jaws are designed to work in the same way (up and down motion for crunching instead of side to side motion for chewing), etc. Your dog may not look like a wolf on the outside, but it's a different story when looking on the inside.

Another thought when it comes to feeding...

From what I've read, it takes about 10,000 years for a species to evolve. To figure out how a dog should eat we need to look at their ancestors, the wolf. I don't think wolves' food is always elevated...yes it may be from time to time but not always. Depends on how large the prey is, if the wolf is feeding from the bottom or the top, etc. Also wolves are scavengers (as well as dogs), they don't always bring down the large prey I think most of us imagine when thinking of wolves feeding. They'll feed on scraps left by others, rodents, etc. I'm just guessing here but I don't think a wolf grabs the scraps/mice/rabbits/etc. and takes them to a rock for elevation before eating. They'll eat these things at ground level. Also, like someone else already pointed out...the times when a wolf is eating food at an elevated level, it's not kibble.

I don't feel feeding from elevated food bowls is natural for a dog. I feel that the Purdue study has proven elevated food bowls are a risk to a dog's health. These are my opinions and everyone here is free to their own, but it's always best to be informed before forming your opinion.

 

[JulieM]

Sure, Boxers and Dobies are both deep chested. That's a different plane, if you will, from barrel-chested. "Deep" refers to, well, the depth - the distance from the bottom of the chest to the ground - in both breeds, the chest should reach the elbows, which should be half-way between the withers and the ground. "Barrel" or the correct "well-sprung" refers to the breadth - the distance from the left side to the right side, if you're looking at the dog from the front or rear, or looking down at it.

Maybe a better way to put it is "deep" means how far down, "well-sprung" means how far out.

Does that make any sense?

Thomas, dogs and wolves are very different in many respects, but they are still the same species. I agree that the dog has a very different behavioral model than the wolf, because they have chosen to align themselves with humans and so had to change some of their ways, but physiologically I think the differences are more similar than not. And while I agree that there are many dogs that would not have been bred without human intervention (and in fact, many breeds - including the Boxer - that never would have come into existence), I wouldn't say there is *no* process of natural selection. Greatly reduced, sure, but puppies still die no matter what lengths the breeder goes to. The very weak most of the time still do not survive. (Although there are many less-weak that do, and probably would not in the wild.)

(Way off-topic, but an interesting discussion to me!)

Also, technically "bloat" and "torsion" are separate things - the term "bloat" generally refers to "Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus" but the bloat part is the dilatation - expansion of the stomach - the torsion is the volvulus (although torsion and volvulus are actually two different things, based upon which axis the stomach twists). But most of the information I have read states that bloat (dilatation) occurs before torsion, not the other way around. I know that there are dogs who bloat without torsing, and sometimes a stomach tube or needle can be used to decompress the stomach before it torses. Of course, the biggest problem with bloat is that no one knows *what* causes it - that's why Purdue has assessed risk factors.

 

[JulieM]

Originally posted by Alisha Mobley
The link didn't work...is it just me?

Oh, crap, that's geocities stupid policy about not being able to link to pictures.....hold on a second.....

 

[JulieM]

OK, go here:

http://www.geocities.com/juliembw/ct_113.html

 

[Alisha Mobley]

Hmmm...I thought Tyson was barrel chested but after looking at those pics I'm not sure. In the pics it looks as if the ribs round out much farther than the shoulders (actually the dog looks preg.. ). Tyson's ribs round out but are no wider than his shoulders...maybe he's barrel chested AND loaded!

 

[P's Poppa]

I use elevated bowls, I don't know if its making a difference or not cause he eats with his hind legs up on the last 2 steps!