Double White Boxer Question and another one.

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kraitjoli

Boxer Pal
First is an easy one...if you have a white boxer...did your boxer start out all white and as it got older it got color or did it have color earlier?

Second...I have a friend that has a pretty fawn male and a white female with a brindle circle around her eye. My friend wants to breed them and I have tried to talk her out of it, but she wants to do it. 2 ladies where I work breed other dogs and I asked them questions about costs and such. My friend thinks she will be ok recovering the costs and such. I just need some better arguements than I have. The only thing I thought of after reading a thread is that perhaps she has a limited registration and can't breed. Any thing else?

My hubby and I are considering becoming breeders and I know to learn from another one, get tests done and such. But would we not be considered back yard breeders until we get established? And since we only plan on breeding a time or two how would we get established?
 

Oscar&Champ

Super Boxer
All I have to say is you should NEVER breed a white boxer. If you search around the forums about it there are many posts on it and I suggest you print them off and show them to your friend.
 

beausmommy

Boxer Insane
The costs of showing and testing 2 boxers before breeding responsibly will cost thousands of dollars and hours of your time. Why would you want to go through such a process only to breed a couple of times? You would most definitely be considered backyard breeders until both of your breeding dogs were both shown and tested. I suggest you read the information given on this site before you even consider breeding as well as talking to local REPUTABLE breeders about their experiences. Obtaining show (breeding) quality boxers, then showing them as well as health testing them is a long process.

As far as your friend breeding her white boxer, it sounds as though she has already made up her mind. You could still try finding information on the internet that you can provide for her. Sadly, she is probably just looking to make some quick cash and has no real concern about the health or quality of the puppies.

I got Beau at 9 months and he hasn't changed in appearance colorwise since then. He is white with a brindle eye patch and scattered brindle spots under his coat on his body. I do know that some boxers with flash will develop spots like Beau's as they age.
 
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Cami

Boxer Insane
White boxers are born white and remain so. They don't change color as they age.
 

nrdivas

Boxer Booster
Petey's body hasn't changed at all, but the ratio of pink/black on his muzzle has definitely changed, I was just looking at pics of him the other day. He definitely has more black now than before. I wondered if it has anything to do with his diet? He is a rescue and was not fed on a real regular basis before.
 

ZOE*BOXER

Boxer Insane
I agree with Beau's mommy. Zoe is a rescue dog. It is just too hard too see the poor babies awaiting rescue. It will break your heart.
 
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Paper-Dogg13

Boxer Insane
I'm no expert on breeding, and never really care to be, but I do know you're not supposed to ever breed a white boxer. They're still good boxers, obviously my boy's a whitey, but they aren't supposed to be bred. I can't imagine ever breeding. I agree that 1) it'd be too hard to give up the babies, and 2) it'd be to heart-breaking to think of them ending up in a shelter or a rescue. My boy came from a shelter, and I can't imagine why anyone would give him up. Just my 2 cents worth...

Oh, and white boxers are born that way. However, they do tend to get more spotted, or at least Charlie Paper did, and I've noticed other whites have too.
 

boxer

Boxer Insane
She wouldn't just be "considered" a backyard breeder, she would be the epitome of one :mad: A highly irresponsible one at that. And you don't get to be a responsible breeder by first practising at being an irresponsible one.

One thing that is patently clear here is that this person has nowhere near adequate knowledge of boxers, and genetics in general, to be even considering breeding dogs. Knowledge can be obtained, of course, but for goodness sake start the learning process before you leap into breeding.

There is no way in the world you can ever be a responsible breeder breeding a white boxer. That is unethical in the extreme.

Why? Because white boxers carry two copies of the Sw (extreme white spotting) gene - that is why they're white. White is not a colour, as such, it is extreme lack of pigmentation. And that lack of pigmentation is what causes around 20% of white boxers to be bilaterally deaf (probably another 20% is unilaterally deaf, but that would only be picked up by BAER testing). More specifically, it is lack of pigment cells (melanocytes) in the inner ear that cause the hair follicles there to die off. And without those hair follicles, the dog cannot hear. Where this becomes important from a breeding perspective is that lack of pigment is hereditary, as is the resultant deafness. So if you breed a white dog, any offspring will have diluted pigment (even if they're coloured) and consequently a higher risk of being deaf. And if they in turn are bred, then you begin the slippery slope of diluting pigment throughout the breed.

In short, this person would be deliberately breeding a known health defect into the breed. Just what the boxer breed needs - another health problem for responsible breeders to try to reverse :rolleyes:

I'd also hazard a guess that she's never even heard of the genetically inherited health defects that the boxer breed is prone to, and that *must* be tested for prior to breeding. Does she know, for example, whether the dogs are clear of Aortic/sub-aortic stenosis and boxer-cardiomyopathy? If not, you're playing russian roulette with whether or not you'd produce a litter of pups that's going to drop dead at age 3, 4 or 5 from heart disease. How about hip dysplasia - had the x-rays done yet? Surely you don't want to produce a litter of puppies that will be crippled at an early age. Hypothyroidism? Corneal dystrophy? These are all common conditions, they're genetically inherited, and they will seriously impact upon the length and quality of life of any affected individuals.

Breeding dogs is not something to be taken lightly. It is a responsibility, not a right. And in order to breed responsibly, you need to be aware of what makes a potential breeding dog - the correct construction and temperament for the breed (which means you need to show, because that's how potential breeding stock gets assessed), the dog needs to be pigmented, and it needs to be free of the serious genetic conditions that, sadly, affect the boxer breed in large numbers.

As I stated as the beginning of this post, knowledge is something that can be obtained. Nobody *has* to be an irresponsible breeder. And *anyone* can become a responsible one. It's purely a matter of which you choose to be.

Here are a few links for you:
Why white boxers must *never* be bred from (includes advice from leading canine geneticists): http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34760
Basic knowledge required before even considering breeding dogs: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11396
The consequences of backyard breeding: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76541
Health testing: http://www.boxerworld.com/health_testing/
Unacceptable reasons to breed, and how to learn to be a responsible breeder: http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/top6/
http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/byb/
Excuses: http://www.boxerworld.com/rescue/excuses/
Basic boxer FAQ: http://www.boxerworld.com/faq/

Lastly, I'll remind you of the rules for participating on this website. We at Boxerworld support and promote wholeheartedly responsible breeding practices only, and will not allow irresponsible breeding to be promoted on this board. From the rules:
Topics inappropriate for discussion on this site include:
- Discussion of breeding practices that would be deemed by most to be unethical or irresponsible. This includes, but is not limited to: breeding white boxers; breeding young dogs; breeding untested dogs; breeding for any purpose other than to improve the breed and/or your line). If you wish to post about your breeding program on this site, you need to be prepared to provide evidence of the health testing undertaken.
- Only breeders doing health tests and participating on BW can mention their site and/or breeding program on the board". Send email to if you fit these conditions and only after approval you are authorized to post your link.
Back yard breeders and commercial breeders are not welcome. You can check the rescue section at http://boxerworld.com/rescue to see who they are.

The links posted provide you with plenty of information to enable you to go about learning what consitutes responsible breeding practices. We will not have "breeding white boxers" threads on this forum, and in accordance with the rules, this thread is now closed.
 
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