Dog to Dog Aggression - whining instead of growling

[boxerallie]

When we were in the adoption process of adopting Allie, we asked the foster how she was with other dogs. Where she was being fostered the dogs were kept in kennels. The foster mom told me that she didn't pay attention to the other dogs and when she was in the house with one of them she was fine. Since we've had her, she has always whined like a maniac and lunged/pulled at any other dog outside. Our trainer said he saw no signs of aggression, just excitement. He suggested putting her into doggie day care for her to socialize. Well at the meet and greet, when the first dog came in (which was a boxer) Allie immediatley attacked, went straight for the other dogs leg and they had to be pulled apart. She stayed completely fixated and ready to pounce.

The weird thing is, she never growls, snarls, or barks. She just whines. Has anyone ever had experience with a boxer doing this?

And what can we do? Our trainer said we can't teach her to like dogs, just to not lunge and my husband and I don't agree with that at all!

Thanks in advance!

 

[Caney Creek]

When a dog is truly dog-aggressive, it will not growl, snarl, or bark. Growling, baring teeth, etc. are warning signals, not aggressive behavior -- a dog who growls and shows teeth is actually telling the other dog to "back off." You'd see this behavior more so with possessive/territorial aggression, food aggression, fear aggression, etc. I'm by no means an expert but what you've described sounds like what you'd see in a dog who has been trained to fight. :( Even if that's not the case, it doesn't sound to me like this is something that can be corrected with training. The good thing though is that dog aggression in no way translates to human aggression... so it's not like you have to worry about her being this way with people.

Hopefully someone else can offer some more insight....

 

[ELubas]

Hi there Did she bite the other dog? Where on the leg did she grab and which-front or back? How old is she? If she came from rescue you should definitely contact them. If she truly spent time with other dogs in foster then I think a behavorial consult is in order. And a dog that fights takes no prisoners so there would be damage. I have a dog reactive dog who, if overwhelmed, will become aggressive. Takes managemnt but these dogs, in the right hands, can do very well. Only a well trained behavorist can help you and this girl. Bless you for rescuing and please let us know how it goes. I have a soft spot for these feisty boxer girls lovicon

 

[ehayes21]

And what can we do? Our trainer said we can't teach her to like dogs, just to not lunge and my husband and I don't agree with that at all!

Thanks in advance!

While I am only speaking from my own experience...You're trainer is completely correct - you can't make your dog like other dogs. But you can teach them to offer other behaviors when in the presence of other dogs. What I do think was a mistake is throwing her into a new situation, being at a daycare and then being thrown in with a strange new dog. Even with the best intentions, the daycare workers may not have presented a dog that had a full range of social skills, which your dog picked up on and felt that it was her best defense to aggress. And I totally agree with Caney, some dogs just don't want to get along with other dogs. BUT, none of us were there to witness this event, so we can't really offer up any advice as to why this happened and what this aggression stemmed from.

That said - you really need a behaviorist - not a trainer, but a behaviorist that works with with behavior modification. Training sit and stay are one thing, but changing the way a dog reacts to certain triggers is a whole other ball game. They will really dig into the dogs history (even if you don't know it all) and your accounts of her reactions to other dogs. With that information they'll be able to establish a plan to rehab your dog.

I have a fear aggressive bitch - before seeking help, she'd whine bark and growl around strange dogs. Then when living my late but great Manny she decided to out of the blue send him to the ER.
After a few years of work, Disco will never see the inside of a dog park, nor will she ever meet an play with dog that I don't personally know that has well rounded social skills. It's just the way it is, not every dog wants to be friends with other dogs. But the good news is, should we see an unknown dog on the street she looks to me for direction instead of reacting. She also is able to get along with my other boxer Rowdy and a great little pack of bostons.
It's a lot of work, but it's worth it.

Check out this site:
International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC)

And then I also suggest you get the book 'Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff - it's an excellent read.

 

[ELubas]

While I am only speaking from my own experience...You're trainer is completely correct - you can't make your dog like other dogs. But you can teach them to offer other behaviors when in the presence of other dogs. It's just the way it is, not every dog wants to be friends with other dogs. But the good news is, should we see an unknown dog on the street she looks to me for direction instead of reacting. She also is able to get along with my other boxer Rowdy and a great little pack of bostons.
It's a lot of work, but it's worth it.

Check out this site:
International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC)

And then I also suggest you get the book 'Aggression in Dogs" by Brenda Aloff - it's an excellent read.

This is true and so well said!!! It is all about respecting your dog's boundaries and working within that context. So much damage has been done to dogs by trying to "force them" to socialize-an overused term. Lot of wisdom in this post and it is definetely the road I am walking with my Nysa

 

[BendyBoxers]

I would only offer that you should probably go to the 'top level' behaviorIST, not a behavior consultant. I only say this because it sounds like your dog is acting in an aggressive way, and it doesn't sound to me like it is out of fear but a genuine anticipation to get to the other animal.. and when she did, she lunged and bit. Now I don't know the whole story, the why and the leading up to behaviors.. dogs never do things 'without warning'. There may have been subtle warnings or behaviors etc etc. which a good behaviorist will point out to you.
There aren't too many chances that a dog gets to 'get it right' when they behave like this! :(
Plus, she's already been thru rescue.. you're probably her last stop.
Behaviorists have been through years of college education VS the consultants being 'certified' through training hours and passing a knowledge test. I am in NO WAY discounting consultants, but when its the life or death of your dog...... I'd go all out.

 

[ELubas]

. I only say this because it sounds like your dog is acting in an aggressive way, and it doesn't sound to me like it is out of fear but a genuine anticipation to get to the other animal.. and when she did, she lunged and bit. Now I don't know the whole story, the why and the leading up to behaviors.. .

I think when Boxerallie has a chance to describe the event in more detail it will be clearer what her girl is reacting to but nine times out of ten fear is a huge factor, and fear can present very differently dog to dog depending on that dog's experience. I am still curious to know if her girl actually bit-she does not say. And I agree only a trained behavorist will be able to get to the bottom of it

 

[alyssakitz]

I think you've received some great advice. We worked with a trainer and a wonderful boxer boy we wanted to adopt before getting Marshall. "Jack", the rescue dog, never showed signs that he was going to be aggressive, other than staring. It was his "tell" that something was going to go down, but unless a person was keenly tuned into him you would have never known it.

Our trainer (not a behaviorist) worked and worked with him. He reached a point where he would not stare at other dogs and could be trusted on leash on a walk. But even with hours of training and much exposure to other dogs he still went after a dog who he was quite comfortable with - which is why we ended up not adopting him. As it turned out, he was just never going to be a dogs, dog. He was ok in a very, very controlled environment with one doggie friend he knew well, but throw anything else into the mix and all bets were off. In the end he went to a home with no other dogs, to a wonderful family with a daycare. His dog aggression in no way made him unsafe around people.

Best of luck to you! I'd find a good behaviorist to work with, for sure!

 

[boxerallie]

thank you for all the great responses. i'm sorry for the delay. i guess the email notifcations aren't working. i thought only one person replied and never knew about the rest!

last saturday we had a behavorist come out to the house with his own pack of dogs. it was like watching the dog whisperer! within 5 minutes he had allie walking on one side and his pit bull on the other. she did lunge out at him a few times but the behavorist said it's more of a "get away" thing than aggression. she definitley has never been socialzied. she doesn't even know how to sniff a dog's butt. he put his dog in a sit and let her go to sniff him and she nipped at his leg. we told him that when we come home from a house with other dogs, she never sniffs us and he said that's not normal dog behavior which backs up her not being socialized. he said everything she was doing, his dogs at one point did and they were perfectly behaved so there's hope! he said we have to just keep having her around other dogs. he's coming again this weekend so hopefully she makes more progress!

she's already no longer whining when she sees other dogs when we're on walks and we can redirect her pretty quickly. they said that she'll definitely play with other dogs as longs as we keep at with her. we love our girl so we'll do whatever it takes!

thanks again!

 

[ELubas]

I am so glad for your girl! What great news-she is very lucky to have such a devoted owner-best of luck with her