Demodex Mite found really worried

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jboboxer

Super Boxer
I keep meaning to post this, but keep forgetting. There's no hair loss at all that I can tell. She seems to be shedding, but it seems normal.

I've been trying to take a picture of the bumps, but it's really difficult as the flash and or camera don't capture it well since it's under the hair.
 

kayboxer

Boxer Insane
Just another quick question, if I would have gotten the puppy from a more reputable breeder is there a possibility that the puppy wouldn't have had it?

That is a possibility, but still no guarantee. I got my first girl from a reputable breeder, parents being health tested. She had horrible D-Mange. The vet said it was one of the worse cases they had seen. It took months, but she got better. Unfortunately, they did the dips on her. At that time I did not know anything about the dips and how harmful they could be. Luckily, she made it through and all her hair returned. The breeder paid for half the treatments. She had more issues than I can count, and we spent thousands of dollars on her. I wouldn't have traded her for the world. With all she went through, she was the sweetest boxer I've ever seen and I loved her whole heartedly. So, there is no guarantee with D-Mange or any other health issue no matter where you get your pup, although you do have a better shot at less health issues with health tested parents. :)
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
Just another quick question, if I would have gotten the puppy from a more reputable breeder is there a possibility that the puppy wouldn't have had it?

A possibility, certainly. It depends on the reason that your puppy has mange. IF it is because she has a hereditary weak immune system, due to her breeder breeding from dogs that themselves have weak immune systems (any dog that has ever had more than 2-3 small spots, OR been given treatment for demodectic mange must be excluded from any breeding programme) - then the answer is yes, definitely. I certainly would not categorise as responsible any breeder who kept a mange sufferer in their breeding programme.

But if, on the other hand, there is nothing much wrong with your puppy's immune system at all (which is usually the case) except that he's just had too much piled on it too soon (also usually the case), then the answer is probably no. No puppy, just like no human baby, is born with a fully functioning immune system. We have some immunity from our mothers, which helps whilst our own systems are developing for themselves. But if too many assaults - and puppies get a LOT - are thrown at it too soon, then it is not the fault of the puppy that he cannot cope. The good news in this case though, is that all you have to do is stop assaulting his immune system for a while, and let it recover and grow.
 

jboboxer

Super Boxer
I'm not sure what to think, some people are saying it's going to go away by itself and I went away for 4 days and came back and my puppy has been on ointment, the shampoo and has taken 1 shot and she's so bad I can't even pet her.

Here is a before picture
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/before.jpg

Here's after picture
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Roxie_1.JPG
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Roxie_Neck1.JPG
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Roxie_Neck2.JPG
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Roxie_Ribs.JPG
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Photo-0134.jpeg
 

jboboxer

Super Boxer
I forgot to mention that the breeder told me that all the dogs have it and so does one of the puppy's they kept. They are doing dips to get rid of it.
 

Cami

Boxer Insane
The dips are highly toxic. Your vet should be telling you this.
The following can be a direct result of the dips.
"Convulsions, ataxia, hyper-excitability, personality change, hypothermia, appetite stimulation,
bloat, polyuria, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, edema,
erythema and other varying degrees of skin irritation. Three fatalities were recorded." **This info taken from from 1998.

Please think long and hard before utilizing this method of treatment no matter what others may do.

At one point in time this product was pulled from the shelves. If memory serves me right it was 2002-2003 (don't quote me on the year). The following link will take you to the package insert information from Pfizer with additional info about clinical studies. At least read it if you are considering this route.

http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdfs/US_EN_MI_compliance.pdf

The pictures seem to show what might be considered a secondary skin infection usually brought on by itching the affected areas. This is pretty normal and vets will prescribe an antibiotic to help with that.

You need to discontinue the shampoo (ask your vet to verify). The Sulf Oxydex should not be applied to open skin (which is what your pup has now). That shampoo will not kill the mites and is best served to use after to encourage new hair growth. It WILL get worse before it gets better. The Goodwinoil is 50/50. It might help and then again you have just as much chance that it won't. You have to apply the ointment on a larger area than you think is needed. For example....if you were seeing any hair loss you would apply it to that area as well as twice that amount away from the balding spot. Since you are not seeing any hair loss you need to use it on other affected areas and still create a larger border around that to ensure you are encompassing it.
 

jboboxer

Super Boxer
The dips are highly toxic. Your vet should be telling you this.
The following can be a direct result of the dips.
"Convulsions, ataxia, hyper-excitability, personality change, hypothermia, appetite stimulation,
bloat, polyuria, vomiting, diarrhea, anorexia, edema,
erythema and other varying degrees of skin irritation. Three fatalities were recorded." **This info taken from from 1998.

Please think long and hard before utilizing this method of treatment no matter what others may do.

At one point in time this product was pulled from the shelves. If memory serves me right it was 2002-2003 (don't quote me on the year). The following link will take you to the package insert information from Pfizer with additional info about clinical studies. At least read it if you are considering this route.

http://www.pfizerah.com/PAHimages/compliance_pdfs/US_EN_MI_compliance.pdf

The pictures seem to show what might be considered a secondary skin infection usually brought on by itching the affected areas. This is pretty normal and vets will prescribe an antibiotic to help with that.

You need to discontinue the shampoo (ask your vet to verify). The Sulf Oxydex should not be applied to open skin (which is what your pup has now). That shampoo will not kill the mites and is best served to use after to encourage new hair growth. It WILL get worse before it gets better. The Goodwinoil is 50/50. It might help and then again you have just as much chance that it won't. You have to apply the ointment on a larger area than you think is needed. For example....if you were seeing any hair loss you would apply it to that area as well as twice that amount away from the balding spot. Since you are not seeing any hair loss you need to use it on other affected areas and still create a larger border around that to ensure you are encompassing it.

Thanks for the info. Just wanted to Add that we are having hairloss now, which we didn't have about 3-4 days ago. I guess it's hard to see, but if you look really close to this picture you'll see it on her head
http://files.getdropbox.com/u/373048/Roxie_1.JPG
 

kathysboxer

Boxer Insane
Are you giving any type of supplements to help the immune system? Tyson had some mange on his cheek. I went the natural route. Better dog food (went raw) and gave sardines and vitamin C. He's not had a problem since.
I also would rethink the dips and such. I would give oatmeal baths for the itching. Just my 2 cents worth.
Hope your baby feels better soon!!!
 

gmacleod

Elusive Moderator
Staff member
...that we are having hairloss now, which we didn't have about 3-4 days ago.

One thing you should bear in mind about demodectic mange is that it ALWAYS gets worse before getting better. That is, in the time between diagnosis and recovery - with or without treatment (in which I'll include treatment that is just good quality nutrition and removal of stresses to the immune system) - more hair is *going* to fall out.

The reason is quite simple : hair doesn't just fall out because the dog has mites, or too many mites. It falls out because it gets damaged by there being too many mites. So if you have an excess of mites right now, they will be causing damage to the hair follicules, and those damaged hairs will fall out in a few weeks time. They won't fall out today, but will take time to die and be shed.

Therefore, the hair loss you are seeing today results from damage done a month (or so) ago. Hair that falls out next week was damaged 3 weeks ago. And so on. So if all damage magically ceases today, you won't see the cessation of hair loss for 3-4 weeks. And regrowth in the bald areas will probably take several more weeks after that. Do bear that in mind when you consider whether or not your treatment is working - there are NO instant barometers with mange.
 

Mike2859

Boxer Pal
Wow, what a coincidence my Roxy had denodex mites, very very badly.
My vet tried dipping her but they came back.
She also got secondary infections from the mites that needed massive doses of antibiotics to cure.
I finally took Roxy to a Vet dermatologist.There are 3 "cures"
1 Increased frequency Dips which left Roxy lethargic for 2 days.
2. The injection, can be fatal in some dogs, a genetic test is available.
3. The heart-worm tablet Interceptor given daily for 30 days.

I chose #3 which I felt was less traumatic for Roxy albeit much more expensive.
After 30 days the Mites were gone. We kept up the treatment for another 30 days and then 1/2 dose for another 30 days.
The Mites never came back.
Good Luck
Mike in Miami
 
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