Crating and Jan Fennell Method

[OurFirstPup]

I am currently reading Jan Fennell's "The Dog Listener", and intend to follow her methods. However, she does not address crating in her book, and I crate my 10-week-old when I am out of the house. Her 5 minute rule would not work if I come home and ignore the dog, since it is confined and is unable to interact with me. On the other hand, if I go to her crate and open it to begin the 5 minute rule, that seems like paying attention/giving the dog what it wants in itself, thus voiding the whole point. There is also a chance that during the initial "ignoring" phase poor dog just might mess in the house if she's been holding it in the crate. Seems like a dead-end situation, any advice?

 

[TwoDogs]

I'm a firm believer that any training method should be tailored to suit you and your dog's personal needs and training objectives. If you look at the reason why a trainer recommends a certain thing, you can modify the exercise but still keep the intent. The intent of Fennell's "5 minute rule" of no interaction and affection when you return home, is to keep the dog from coming to believe that you are coming to pay respect to them the way a submissive dog/wolf would when returning to the pack. If your dog is crated, you can still ignore them for 5 minutes in the crate.

Personally, I ignore my crated dogs when I come home. However, it's not because I subscribe to any theories about wolf pack behavior as it relates to domestic dogs, but because I often have to put away my groceries, or help my 5 year old with his coat and shoes, or just because I'm tired and don't want to deal with my dogs right away. The other day they were in the crates for a good half hour after we got home before my husband asked "Hey, where are the dogs?" We had completely forgotten to let them out.

If you want to follow the exercise that Jan Fennell recommends, just ignore the dog in the crate when you get home. Rather than set a time frame, I would wait until the dog shows calm behavior, whether it is 3 minutes, 5 minutes or 10 minutes. If you're concerned that the dog has to relieve itself before then, then let the dog out of the crate and put it outside without acknowledging it or giving any affection. I think the intent of the exercise doesn't really hinge on some arbitrary time frame that someone else sets, it's more about the state of mind both you and the dog are in when you interact with each other.

 

[OurFirstPup]

TwoDogs, you make good points, and thank you for replying! I suppose I could put the puppy outside when I get home, but since she's still housebreaking, I would have to be there with her and give her a treat if she potties. Would that hamper the process? I guess I'll play it by ear for now. At 10 weeks, she whimpers quiet a bit when she hears/sees me while I'm ignoring her, I have not waited long enough to have her stop. I'm excited to begin implementing this method, it seems the most sensible one so far.

 

[JaspersFam]

i don't know if i can agree with just leaving my dog in the crate when i come home (although i do understand not running in right away as i do have my son and usually groceries, bags, etc when i come home) but what seems to work well for us is that we come home and let him out we don't call his name as we are coming to his crate and do not get overly excited either. we simply let him out, make him walk to the back door, let him out to use the restroom, give him a couple of minutes to use the restroom, run, etc.. then talk to him and play with him....

dunno, it is just my personal opinion but it is one thing for them to be crated while you are gone, but another to just leave them in there when you are home and they can hear you..

 

[JaspersFam]

I suppose I could put the puppy outside when I get home, but since she's still housebreaking, I would have to be there with her and give her a treat if she potties. .

keeping an eye on her from inside the house and then going out and praising her might work, or simply ignoring her while she is out there until she potties might work... i don't think you'll be hampering anything

 

[OurFirstPup]

keeping an eye on her from inside the house and then going out and praising her might work

I give her a treat as soon as she finishes, so that she knows exactly what she's being treated for. I read on here that puppy's attention span is about 5 seconds, so I try to get on it right away.
I think I will do as you do - not make eye contact/call her when I come home, and not rush to let her out, either - when I get home, I need to change from work clothes, so I usually do that (she's crated by my closet), then let her out, treat if she potties, and proceed with the 5-minute rule after that.

P.S. When I opened the door to let her out last night, there was a huge spider by the door. She sniffed and followed it a little bit (I was hoping she'd kill it, I hate spiders), but didn't touch it; so I killed it by smacking it with my shoe. If you could see her face - she looked like her jaw dropped. You could see her little brain working in overdrive, I guess she was figuring out that I'm the one that kills stuff. I hope I was reading her correctly, because all of a sudden her tail was wagging and she was looking at me with doubled respect Maybe that put me up a few notches in the Alpha status, heheh