Confused about nutrition

[Eleonora II]

Having gotten the scare of my life with respect to the onion issue I'd love to get some advice if what I'm feeding Buddy is OK - although I must say he is doing great and has thanks God no health problems (touch wood).

Breakfast: 1 hot dog, snack 4 diet biscuits (he loves sweets)
Lunch and dinner: 1/2 portion each consisting of either cooked chicken, liver or beef mixed with pasta, rice or bread (ratio ¾ : ¼)and 2 spoons of yoghourt
Afternoon snack: 1 hot dog and a few pieces of cheese
Bedtime treat

Once a week he gets a tuna fish lunch – I guess he must have been a cat in a previous life time. Just the smell of tuna fish gets him to loose his manners and stand up on the counter. Is this normal? Would it be harmful if I give him fish more often?

I also read in another thread here that sweet potatoes can be fed? Mixed with something or just alone? We have them in abundance here.

It goes without saying that whenever someone is cooking he tries his very best to make his presence known – it's hilarious at times. I have a very big kitchen yet it's imperative that he must squeeze between the counter and/or the stove and the cook. We always have a good laugh … until at some point I tell him to go somewhere else. He then sits at the kitchen door ever ready to receive what comes his way .

I'd appreciate any advice and/or correction, just bear in mind that in Egypt the only food for dogs available is dry food (which he can't stand). Thanks a lot.

PS The dogs we had in my youth always got raw meat mixed with some flakes. But raw meat or chicken is not very advisable in Egypt these days.

 

[gmacleod]

To begin with, I would congratulate you on homecooking for your dog (and have moved your thread to the homecooking forum, as this is the best place to get useful responses on this topic). Homecooking is far better nutrition than dry dog food is ever going to be - though this is rather dependent on what goes into the meals you prepare.

And on that latter point, I do see some issues with what you're feeding. First and foremost - hotdogs. That is junk food, no better than dry dog food. They're full of salt and chemicals. That may be OK in small doses, for an occassional treat. But you're giving them to your dog daily! Honestly, I'd dump those from his diet immediately. Save them for giving it tiny little bits as training treats (or just eliminate them completely).

Second thing is that it seems you have quite a lot of grain or grain-based things like pasta in his diet. That is a matter of opinion (unlike the onions and hotdogs, which are definitively not good for him), but personally I would be inclined to replace some of this with vegetables such as potatoes or sweet potatoes (or just feed more of the meat).

Third - I don't see a source of calcium in your dog's diet. Are you adding anything to provide calcium? If not, you would need to. Fortunately, it is not at all difficult. You could consider cooking bones for long periods (or in a pressure cooker) until they are soft and will disintegrate. Or alternatively, just add some dried eggshell. You would need about 1tsp per 500g of meat to provide a balanced diet (the rest of the egg is good for him to have too, of course!).

And lastly, the tuna fish actually isn't good. Or at least, only on an occassional basis as big fish like tuna contain high levels of mercury. This is NOT to say that oily fish are bad - they're not, they're excellent for him to have. It is just that it would be better if you chose smaller oily fish - things like sardines or mackeral (fresh or canned). Would it be possible to replace the tuna with one of these fish instead?

Besides that, I think the only thing you should be looking at is a bit more variety in the meat you feed, and preferably a wider range of offal than just liver (include heart, kidneys, tripe, etc as well). If the offal overall could make up 10-20% of all the meat you feed, you'd be doing pretty well

How would you feel about getting some books on homecooking for dogs? I think that could probably give you some good ideas about what is good and bad to feed, as well as general recipe ideas. There are quite a few around these days. Some good suggestions on this page (see the homecooking tab) - I would imagine you could probably get some of these where you are: Dog Food Analysis information section

 

[Eleonora II]

Dear elusive moderator

Thanks a lot for your detailed answer which is a great help. And thanks for moving my posting – I didn't realize that there is a special section for feeding. Having said that I also realize that I should be clearer in my writings :-( - although we do have the junk food hot dogs here I feed Buddy those home made by the butcher. They're basically saussages (hot dog size) and I alternate between chicken, beef and veal. Do you reckon I can keep them or should I drop them nonetheless?

As for the calcium: I do get from the butcher leg bones from the calf which he cuts in pieces of approx. 15 – 20 cm. At times I also get lamb bones. In order to reduce the mess in the house I put them for approx. 5 min. in boiling water until the blood coagulates. Of those he gets 2 – 3 per week which he grinds down to nothing in no time. The egg shells sound good to me too – I'll start mixing those in his food. Can I overdo it with calcium?

I was told to feed him 1/4 of carbs and 3/4 of meat, liver or chicken (breasts). I will increase the liver and heart part. Having read through many of the postings in this section I do have my doubts now. Do I understand this correctly that carbs are basically fillers like vegetables and the dogs don't actually need them for their well-being? If so then I can simply cut these out. He is not fond of vegies anyway. But I'll give the sweet pot a try.

I also read that these stews are cooked for hours (with apples, bananas and what have you!?) – other than being an unidentifiable mass doesn't this destroy all the nutritional values ? I normaly fry his meat in sunflower oil, salt it moderately and that's that. The pasta gets tossed in tomato sauce which he loves and mixed with the meat or whatever he gets on that day plus 2 spoons of yoghourt nature.

With respect to tuna fish – he gets those diet ones which are in water rather than in oil. But that doesn't help with the mercury … I can't stand the smell of sardines or mackerel but I guess I will have to rough it.

I was today with your books recommendation list in two book stores but was unlucky. They're not so much into pets here :-( so it has to wait until my next trip home to Switzerland.

Do you have any nice idea(s) for natural treats other than the cheese or the saussage? What could I give him for breakfast instead? He loves yoghourts with fruits but would that be good and sufficient for him in the morning?

Although he is – thanks God! – a healthy little rascal my confidence has been rattled lately with respect to what I'm feeding him.

Thanks a lot for any advice and help .

 

[gmacleod]

LOL - OK, the 'hot dogs' don't sound quite so bad.. I can stop imagining the nasty mass-produced stuff I was imagining. BUT it would be good to find out exactly what is in them before deciding if they're good or not. Usually, sausages have a lot of pretty low grade stuff in them - which is fine for the occassional meal, but I'm conscious that you seem to be feeding these daily, which makes quality much more of a concern. This being on the basis that a little junk food now and again is fine for just about everyone, but if it's making up 50% of your diet, it's not so fine. So I think you should see what you can find out about the content and decide whether to keep feeding them (or to keep feeding them in quite such quantity) based on what you discover.

As for calcium - for an adult dog, no, overdoing calcium is not a major concern. Excess gets excreted (if his stools are/become excessively hard, that could be an indication of too much - but stools should be pretty hard, so it's really if he ends straining that I mean here). [Side note: this is absolutely not the case for growing puppies - who don't excrete excess calcium and who can suffer growth disorders if given too much]. I understand your dog is an adult though, so you probably have no need to worry about excessive calcium if you approximate the correct amount. Since you do feed other bones, it couldn't hurt to reduce a little the 1tsp per 500g of meat though.

Incidentally, yes, long periods of cooking will destroy nutrients. I believe pressure cooking can help quite a bit with this though. But even so, it is one of the reasons that many people prefer to feed raw.

However, if you're cooking vegetables or grains, you *need* to cook them a long time, to disintegration point, or else the dog isn't going to be able to digest them anyway (dogs digestive systems aren't well set up for plant matter, so if its not broken down for them, its going straight through without being digested). Plus, if you're cooking bones, these need to be to the point of mushiness to avoid splintering. So some reasons there for the long cooking What would be quite good, of course, is to cook long only those things the dog won't otherwise digest safely/easily, and save things like meat, eggs, fish for only the last little bit of the cooking process.

Having said that, it all depends on what you're comparing to. Yes, cooking will destroy nutrients. But the kibble making process destroys far more So it is certainly the lesser of these two evils.

 

[Eleonora II]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate your advice and help. We just love this little guy so much and I really got scared. Things which I just did (copying also from my parents) seem suddenly questionable to me.

I do see your points and will minimize the carb part. I understand that vegetables are not of the essence so I will not ad any. And I sure will keep you updated on how he is doing with his new diet. I'll check that saussage out because we eat it too from time to time with scrambled eggs. Great taste but now I got curious.

I would love to feed him raw meat and chicken but although I do trust my butcher I'm reluctant with all the stuff that's going on today. Even in Europe I wouldn't have the courage. Maybe I'm over-conscious but better safe than sorry.

Thanks again!

 

[PattonsPeeps]

liver??

I've read that feeding a boxer liver can actually be harmful to them, along with citrus fruit (grapes, oranges, etc) and onions. I too have started homecooking for my boxer. It's only been a few days but already the difference is amazing! He's actually excited about eating where before it was a chore just to interest him in his food. He was always passing gas (literally every few mins or so he would let one go) and his stool was loose. I knew his tummy just wasn't feeling well and decided switching to another brand wasn't something I wanted to get into the habit of. Most people think I'm out of my mind to cater to my dog like that, but I love him! He's not just a dog, he's our baby and I hate to see him feeling icky. He's loving the yogurt that I started giving him, and I while I'd love to feed him strictly homemade food, I am supplementing his diet with Blue Buffalo Chicken & Rice (to make it and the home cooking go further and make sure he's still getting the nutrients that I may be missing). I've read a lot of reviews from other boxer owners on this brand and he loves it much more than his previous food...I'm still in the transition phase. I've been giving our dog a stew-like meal of: 50% old dog food, 25% of new dog food, 25% homecooking (chicken, gizzards (not liver), veggies: potatoes, sweet potatoes, broccolli, celery, carrots, cooked til they're mush & 1 cup brown rice) and a 1 1/2 tsp of yogurt all mixed together, 2x a day. Any thoughts on my ingredients? Thank you for the tip on adding the chicken last...I'll make sure to do that with the next batch. Thanks so much!!!