Chicken Bones and Raw Meat ??

[WitchDr]

I'm a new Boxer owner (or does she own me?). Dakota is 8 wks old, and naturally, I want the best for her so she will live a long, healthy life.

I stumbled onto this BARF thread, and was deeply interested. I've checked out a few links, and intend to do more research on the subject.

However, I must say I'm a little skeptical. I realize that a dog's digestive system is a lot different than ours. But, I was always told NEVER to feed a dog chicken bones or chocolate. (Nothing about chocolate in these threads...I'm just saying). After reading some of these posts, I actually had a nightmare about Dakota choking to death on a chicken bone. :(

I guess at this point, I have 2 questions:

1) I don't care what anyone else does...if I were to start my puppy on a BARF diet, I would grind up the bones. *Fee fi fo fum*. What would be the best way to do this? In a blender?

2) I'm a freak about germs/bacteria/etc. Cooking the meat takes the nutritional value out of the food. Would it be ok to nuke the meat in the microwave for 30 seconds or so, just to be sure any bacteria is dead?

 

[JulieM]

However, I must say I'm a little skeptical. I realize that a dog's digestive system is a lot different than ours. But, I was always told NEVER to feed a dog chicken bones or chocolate.

You should NEVER feed a dog *cooked* chicken bones. (Or cooked any kind of bones, or chocolate, or onions.) Raw chicken bones are actually soft and somewhat flexible - especially bones left over from chicken intended for human consumption, as those birds are very young.

If you think about what wild dogs and wolves eat, it does not seem so unbelievable.

1) I don't care what anyone else does...if I were to start my puppy on a BARF diet, I would grind up the bones. *Fee fi fo fum*. What would be the best way to do this? In a blender?

Many people grind the raw meaty bones, you still get the same benefits but I would be sure to give recreational bones (marrow or knuckle bones, for chewing, not eating) regularly. Don't use your blender unless you want to buy a new one Maverick/Villaware makes a meat grinder that handles chicken wings/backs/necks fairly well, the best price I've found for it ($99) is at www.chefscatalog.com - I highly recommend the one with a Reverse switch. If you have a butcher in your area, you could ask if they will grind the RMBs for you.

2) I'm a freak about germs/bacteria/etc. Cooking the meat takes the nutritional value out of the food. Would it be ok to nuke the meat in the microwave for 30 seconds or so, just to be sure any bacteria is dead?

Well, IMO, microwaving may kill some bacteria but it adds radiation, so which is the lesser of two evils? Plus, microwaving cooks from the inside out, and 30 seconds may be enough to cook some of the bone (especially if it is ground). Someone on a mailing list I'm on ground RMBs for her dog, then cooked them - the dog ended up with a blockage and I think had to have surgery to remove it.

If you are truly concerned with bacteria, you can soak the RMBs briefly in diluted grapefruit seed extract (a natural anti-bacterial) or pour boiling water over them.

 

[WitchDr]

Only the Best

I can tell this is going to be a big decision.

Having two (soon to be 3) small children, I can relate to a lot of this. There is always heated debate on a wide range of subjects when it comes to children. In the 4 yrs that I have been a father, I've seen the "experts" change their opinion on whether a baby should sleep on its back, stomach, or side at least a dozen times.

I'm glad I came across this site to help with concerns about our newest family member.

I guess the first step would be to see what is available at the local butcher shops. And, after I do some more research on BARF, if I decide to do it...I will definitely keep you all posted on Dakota's progress. Since she is only 8 wks old...I think it would be interesting to see how well she does compared to a puppy raised on commercial dog food.

Someone is nibbling at my toes, which means it's playtime...

 

[Pippa]

I spoke to a lady who BARFs her Great Dane the other day, as I'm interested in feeding BARF to Mishka and Loki. She puts all her meat and bones into a blender and mushes them up like that, which might work for your baby, but she would probably appreciate a bit of texture and something to chew on!!

You need to take all normal hygiene precautions when handling raw meat, but do bear in mind that a dog is a scavenger.... in the wild, they eat carrion that has been dead for ages, so the bacteria in raw meat won't do her any harm.

The chocolate thing - DEFINITELY don't feed dogs chocolate, it IS poisonous. Also, in the UK we have mulch for our gardens that contains ground up cocoa husks - the chemical that poisons dogs is called Theobromine (or theobromide or something very similar, sorry exact name escapes me but I'm sure somebody will advise) and I have read recently that a dog has died from eating some of this mulch that her owner unknowingly put in the garden, so please take care.

All the best

 

[Sil]

I have always been told never feed a dog chicken bones, raw or cooked. Since I have been on Boxer world there have been so many views on this, One lady said she buys chicken necks and cook them. for her dog, and has done it for years.Have any of you ever tried this?If so and it is ok I'd like to do it for Holly and Greta I know they will love it . They are always sniffing when I cook chicken. I have been told that chicken bones have tiny splinters and can be harmful.I know I grew up with a little terrier dog that ate everything leftover from our table, bones and all.I can't remember seeing dogfood in our house, That terrier lived to be 19 years old and died from cancer
Sil

Mom to 2 great boxer babies
Holly 8 and Greta 4

 

[JulieM]

Cooked chicken bones splinter. The next time you have a chicken wing (raw), take it and bend it. The bones are fairly soft and don't splinter much (and when they do break, the pieces are flexible).

The product in chocolate/cocoa mulch is theobromine (or theobromide LOL - I can never remember which one it is, either!! I think it's the "n" though.)

I personally would not feed cooked chicken necks (unless, of course, you removed the bones). They may not splinter (they may, I don't know) but they are not digestible when they're cooked and could easily cause an impaction.

 

[WitchDr]

The War Against BARF

I'm facing the worst of enemies....my mother !!

Growing up, we always had dogs. My parents have 2 Pugs now, ages 5 and 1. When I told my mother I was considering a raw diet...she flipped.

Today at work (yes, we work at the same place, imagine that!) she gave me a report from Yahoo! on the negative effects of a raw diet. Most of the stuff in there steered me more TOWARDS a raw diet. Here is the link:

http://pets.yahoo.com/dogs/care/nutrition/?article=dangers_of_raw_meat

I got a Dauchaund when I was 5 yrs old. One year, at Easter time, he got into our Easter candy while we were at church. The amount of chocolate he ate was staggering. He survived, but had serious problems after that. I was only 14 at the time, so I don't remember much...but we ended up having to put him to sleep, because he was in so much pain.

Rusty - Waiting at the Bridge (I miss you old pal)

 

[JulieM]

Well, I agree with most of this article. A raw meat diet is not good for dogs. However, a species-appropriate raw diet (or biologically appropriate for the right acronym) is not a meat-only diet - it is meat, bones, offal, vegetables, fruits, some diary, and for some dogs, grains.

Another good article on the dangers of a raw meat diet is http://www.caberfeidh.com/NaturalDiet.htm

Also, did your mother happen to see the big Purina banner at the top of page? It's highly unlikely they would promote a raw foods diet

 

[WitchDr]

Okay, I'm Convinced

After doing a lot of research...I've decided to take the leap.

Step #1 would be to find a butcher shop to get this stuff from. What is it I'm supposed to ask for? Just ask if they have any chicken backs and wings?

 

[JulieM]

Ask about "off-cuts" - this is usually chicken backs/necks, and long bones (marrow bones) and necks of beef, veal, lamb, pork. (I have fed on occasion pigs feet and pork tails, but they take forever to eat and make the dogs really thirsty!) And ask if they will grind these for you - far easier that way and if it's only a few cents more expensive well worth it IMO.