I'm not sure what's up with my 2 yr old Maddie. About a year ago she had this weird incident. She was running then all of a sudden she jumped up in the air with all fours then she fell down stiff and landed on her side. She just laid there. I ran up to her and tried to calm her. She looked scared so I just petted her until she seemed to recover a bit. I thought maybe something scared her and freaked her out. Yesterday the same thing happened but I was close enough to see exactly what was happening. We were walking up a hill and she was coughing. She began to wobble and it was so strange all four legs spread out. I thought she was going to injure her back. Then she fell to her side and laid there. I kept her calm until she was able to get up. Last night she tried to jump on my bed and I heard her flop to the ground. I got up and she was laying on her side with the same look on her face. She seems ok today though not as active as normal. Her gums seem a bit pale to me but not white or gray. She has been to the vet many times for various reasons and they have always said her heart sounds fine. I will take her to the vet but hoping this sounds more like vaso vagal syncope?
Cardiomyopathy vs Vasovagal Syncope
- Thread starter alihandra
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Cami
Boxer Insane
Could be but life threatening all the same.....
"The vast majority of syncopal events in veterinary medicine are due to a transient reduction in brain blood flow. A sudden decrease in cardiac output (CO) or vascular resistance reduces mean arterial pressure may both result in reduction of cerebral blood flow. The most common causes we see in our patients are cardiogenic in nature. Two-thirds of dogs and cats with syncope also have a cardiac disease. Most of these are related to rhythm disturbances which are secondary to inherent cardiac disease. Underlying cardiac functional or structural abnormalities exacerbate the negative effect of arrhythmias on cardiac output. Poor myocardial contractility, impaired filling as with pericardial disease or outflow obstructions can all result in an inability of the heart to maintain sufficient cardiac output to meet increased demand during excitable states; even under normal cardiac rhythms."
"The vast majority of syncopal events in veterinary medicine are due to a transient reduction in brain blood flow. A sudden decrease in cardiac output (CO) or vascular resistance reduces mean arterial pressure may both result in reduction of cerebral blood flow. The most common causes we see in our patients are cardiogenic in nature. Two-thirds of dogs and cats with syncope also have a cardiac disease. Most of these are related to rhythm disturbances which are secondary to inherent cardiac disease. Underlying cardiac functional or structural abnormalities exacerbate the negative effect of arrhythmias on cardiac output. Poor myocardial contractility, impaired filling as with pericardial disease or outflow obstructions can all result in an inability of the heart to maintain sufficient cardiac output to meet increased demand during excitable states; even under normal cardiac rhythms."
Bathel
Super Boxer
Sounds exactly like my little girl, who has Cardiomyopathy...
Boxers are prone to this and it wouldn't surprise me in the lest to have it diagnosed in your case...
My vet couldn't diagnose it from their simple testing and after three episodes and doing some blood work and listening to her heart they still could not diagnose it... I had to employee a cardiologist to do a Holter test on her which confirmed the issue (along with a ultrasound and physical exam first by the Cardiologist).
With the description you gave, it is EXACTLY the same issues I had... she would be "wobbly" on her legs and had a cough and would "pass out" stiff like she just died... This would happen during play and at times of rest... didn't seem to follow any rhyme or reason as to when it would occur.
Since getting her diagnosed and on meds... she no longer has any wobble or cough and hasn't had a passing out episode. Her latest Holter took her from 12,000 irregular hear beats in a 24 hour period to a total of 8 in 24 hours... 8 total irregular beats was more than I hoped for and is just amazing...
If I were you, I'd seek a Cardiologist and have a exam/holter performed. It may cost 500 dollars or a bit more for the initial exam and holter, but a cardiomyopathy could easily kill your pup if not treated. For me, I'd rather know for sure what I was going on than just hope it was not a heart issue.
I'm not sure if I should have Maddie tested. She seems fine now. If medications will help her than she obviously needs to be seen but if meds don't help and she's on borrowed time I want her to have a good life without complications of meds. ( I think I posted on the wrong forum I am not a breeder and Maddie is spayed) If her episodes are infrequent will they actually be able to tell if it's her heart by using the halter? I love my dog so hopefully I don't sound detached. I also thought that syncope was not life threatening. Does she need to be seen urgently? She has not had any issues today. Thanks for your advice!
Bathel
Super Boxer
I would recommend ABSOLUTELY getting a holter and meds. The meds are really easy to give to the pup (I put mine on my finger with some peanut butter and my girl gobbles it up). It's more inconvenient for me as I have to do it three times a day. If it's a ARVC issue, it's should be easy to control and limit their exposure to risk. I don't see where giving the meds would decrease the quality of life in any way... my girl actually LOVES "Treat" time and I have noticed no side effects from the drugs.
Syncope can be serious and can be life threatening. In humans they now implant defibrillators to help control the issues of ARVC.
The idea of the Holter is that it monitors EVERY beat for 24 hours and gives a read out. The arrhythmia will show up in that period numerous times if it is a problem. To give you an example... my little girl had well over 12,000 irregular heart beats in a 24 hour period and only had had 4 syncope over a years period of time prior to medication... Now after medication, she has only 8 irregular heart beats in 24 hours and in the last 6 months since medication has had no syncope. In fact, she no longer has a cough and is no longer "wobbly" on her feet when she plays.
I was like you and waited and waited hoping it wasn't a cardiomyopathy because I didn't want to take on the expense of a Cardiologist. Now, after doing it... I feel pretty stupid waiting so long. The cost was minimal (compared to surgery for a torn acl or other issue boxers are prone to) and the result was very noticeable in my girls quality of life. The application of pills is a bit problematic for me for the schedule of the dosage, but once the schedule was figured out it has been pretty easy.
I would really really recommend moving forward with the Holter. You can wait all you won't... you never know which period of irregular heart beat will be the one that puts the pup down for good... there is no way to tell. I could be years from now... it could be in an hour... I could never happen...
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Thanks for the advice! Maddie had another episode today so I made the soonest appointment I could get which is tomorrow. We don't have a cardiologist in Tucson so I'll probably have to go to Phoenix for the heart specific test. She is sleeping now snuggled up against me. I can forgo the extra trips to Starbucks and skip a few hair appointments...I would really miss her
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