Breeding ???

[wendx]

Hello ,
I have a flashy fawn male named Ceaser he came from a litter of 10 and 4 were white. Health wise they were doing very well no deafness. I am thinnking of breeding Ceasar to another flashy fawn what are the chances of me getting white boxers. I am trying to avoid getting white puppies I was advised to not breed to a flashy fawn but to a female that has the all black mask. I have never breed before so I am trying to learn everything I can before I do. Any advice is welcomed

Thanks,
Wendy

 

[Kerry Jane]

Okay, my first 2 questions to you are this?
1. Has your dog been health tested? (see here for a listing of the health tests recommended by the American Boxer Club - http://www.americanboxerclub.org/health-screening.html)
2. Have your shown your dog at all in conformation shows or had him evaluated by someone who knows the breed to ensure that his structure is correct?

If these 2 things have not been done you should not be thinking about breeding him. One of the main reasons for breeding is to try and improve the breed. This means knowing what the faults are in your dog and looking for another dog that will complement your dog (doesn't have the same faults), it means making sure you are breeding boxers with correct structure, with correct temperaments and which have passed their health testing. Otherwise you should not be thinking about breeding.

BTW - if you breed flashy to flashy you have about a 25% chance of white puppies (of course, it could be a lot more and could be a lot less).

IMO - leave breeding to the professionals, OR if it is something you are interested in, then find yourself a mentor and get yourself a show prospect boxer. Show your dog to it's championship, get all of it's health testing done, look for a suitable mate, and only then would I breed.

 

[wendx]

Thank you for the information. That really helped alot. He is not for showing just a pet. I did see both the parents and they were definetly boxers no cross breeds. I had never even seen or heard of white boxers until I saw these puppies. Are they popular ? are they common / uncommon rare?

 

[gmacleod]

Thank you for the information. That really helped alot. He is not for showing just a pet.

Then he is not breeding material. Period. In order to be considered as a breeding prospect, every dog needs to be evaluated for his conformation to the breed standard. Really, you should enjoy your dog for the wonderful pet and companion that he is, and leave the breeding to those who're prepared (and actually interested enough) to go through showing their dog, and then investing the time and money required to determine whether or not the dog is then healthy enough from a genetic perspective to be bred.

Just as examples:
Never acceptable reasons to breed: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_top-6-reasons-people-give-to-breed.htm (note the article ends with an overview of how to go about things responsibly - which should be of interest to anyone to whom the "6" don't apply)
Genetically inherited health conditions that *must* be screened for prior to using any dog for breeding: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_boxer-dog-health-testing.htm
What's wrong with "backyard breeding": http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/view_back-yard-breeder-byb.htm and
http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76541
Basic info needed before even considering breeding: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11396

Well, you start to get the picture. It's just not responsible to enter into breeding dogs without undertaking quite a lot. IF you're interested in that - there's nothing to stop you doing it. Your puppy is only 13 weeks old, and you can't undertake all the required genetic tests until he's 24 months minimum - so plenty learning time. There aren't any qualifications or tests to undergo before becoming a dog breeder. Absolutely anyone can. BUT there's a right way and a wrong way - responsible and irresponsible. This site will only allow discussion of breeding practices when it's the responsible way. As written in the rules, backyard breeders and other irresponsibles aren't welcome here.

Not many of us are prepared or interested enough to make the sort of investment required to do it the responsible way. And we should thus just not do it. Leave breeding to those who are prepared to invest the time and money required to do it right, and who'll look after the health of this breed rather than contribute to destroying it.

As to your last question though - no white boxers are not remotely rare. 25% of puppies born to two flashy parents will be white (statistically), and since the flashy population of Nth America is so high, you can rest assured that so too is the white birth rate. If you take a look at the gallery here, you'd note that - statistics aside - there really is no shortage of white boxers in reality either

 

[wendx]

Thanks for all the information was very helpful and much apppreciated. Last thing I want to do is be a back yard breeder so no worries there. I guess I was just mainly curious about these white boxers I have been reading they are not genetically sound and not recognised by the AKC. If there is a chance to get white boxers when breeding 2 flashy fawn why do people breed them unless they are worth more money to some.I will be enjoying Ceaser for what he is a great companin for me. I had friends many years ago that were into showing Boxers and I learned alot from them and went to many shows with them. I guess I missed the class on white Boxers. HaHa. So ant info on white boxers would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Wendy

 

[ehayes21]

I have been reading they are not genetically sound and not recognised by the AKC. If there is a chance to get white boxers when breeding 2 flashy fawn why do people breed them unless they are worth more money to some.

Whites are not worth more money, in fact some rep. breeders will sell them for less than their colored littermates. But here's the thing, responsible breeders do not breed for money, they are doing it to better the breed. You can register white boxers with the AKC on a limited registration - you just cannot show them. Only the most unethical of a breeder or pet store would try to rip people off and sell it as "rare" for an inflated price. Here, you'll find the some more answers to your questions below.
If you have a few "moments", visit this thread about the white boxer. http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34760

 

[Kerry Jane]

White boxers are not genetically unsound. The only health issue that they have that other colored boxers do not is that about 20% or so of them are deaf, and they are more prone to sunburn. Otherwise they are just as healthy as any other boxer.
Breeders generally breed 2 flashy dogs together because they have determine that the 2 dogs are a best match for each other. Most breeders that I know would prefer to breed a plain dog to a flashy dog because they do not get white puppies - however, chances are that they are not able to find a quality plain dog, that would be a good fit with their bitch, and so they breed to a flashy dog. However, this can result in white puppies.
And, if you take a look at the ABC code of ethics it states that you cannot sell a white puppy. So, a reputable breeder who is in following the COE should not even be selling their white puppies. I have some breeder friends who charge a spay/neuter deposit for their white puppies and that is it.
As stated, white boxers can receive a limited registration from AKC, and they can participate in any other event, other than conformation. I know of some great white boxers who excel in the obedience and agility rings. And, of course, they make great pets too - just as good as any other color boxer.

 

[GoCougs]

And, if you take a look at the ABC code of ethics it states that you cannot sell a white puppy. So, a reputable breeder who is in following the COE should not even be selling their white puppies.

Not true. The ABC Code of Ethics states:

"The breeder may charge veterinary expenses directly related to the puppy."

However each individual wants to interpret that is up to them and their conscience. Expenses include much more that the cost of spay/neuter. The potential veterinary expenses can include worming, vaccinations, tail dock, ear crop, portion of medical expenses for the dam, etc, etc. It's left for interpretation.

 

[Kerry Jane]

Excuse me...charging veterinary expenses directly related to the puppy is definately not the same as selling the puppy. And, the only expenses that I think one could charge for in good faith is the tail dog, worming, vaccinations and that is it, unless the puppy was unexpected sick, and these expense surely don't come to a lot.

I know of breeders who have tried to join ABC and who have run into major problems because in the past they have sold white puppies (for like $300-$400, not even a huge price). They also tried to justify the price they charged by stating they were charging a portion of the medical expenses for the dam, food for the puppies etc -but that didn't go over real well. One specific breeder was only allowed to join after she agreed to mend her ways - and in future, charge only a spay/neuter deposit.

So, I don't necesarily think it is left for interpretation. I have spoken with several old-time breeders about this, and they all told me that the easiest way to not land up in any hot water was to simply charge a spay/neuter deposit, unless the puppy had huge medical expenses of some sort. In this way, your actions cannot be called into question, and there is nothing to try and justify.

My 2cents worth.....

 

[Biff]

Over here white puppies are sold for up to 2/3 of the price of the others in the litter. The laws are different from country to country, and even I suspect from state to state in the US