Boxer Heart Disease! Sings of BCM and only 8 months old! Help...

[Albie]

I am very sorry to hear that Ike is having problems. It is a very good thing that you are going to a cardiologist. A cardiologist will be key to successful treatment if it turns out that he does have BCM. From what you described, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of BCM just yet. Regular vets have been known to make mistakes so wait until you see the cardiologist. Here is a link to an informative article about BCM. http://americanboxerclub.org/boxer_cardiomyopathy.html

Unfortunately, I have had first hand experience with a different form of cardiomyopathy. When our puppy Belle was 4 months old, she was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy. This is a particularly nasty form of cardiomyopathy where the ventricles of the heart dilate causing serious problems. Our Belle never had a murmur. Her problem was runs of premature ventricular contractions. Belle's heart rhythm was all over the place. We would try to take her pulses, and it was virtually impossible. Belle was on about four different heart meds and she did well for a couple of months, until she developed a blood clot in her heart and we had to say goodbye to her.

Even though poor Belle wasn't able to pull through her illness, there is much hope for cardio dogs. Through medication and supplements, there is every reason to believe that these dogs can live a "normal" life. Please let us know how the visit with the cardiologist goes. We will keep Ike in our thoughts and prayers.

 

[Ike8]

Ike's results

First off, I just wanted to thank everyone for the helpful information and concerns that you posted due to Ike’s condition. It really helped me put everything into prospective by hearing so many other boxer owners with similar experiences concerning BMC. And on that note, I just wanted to say thank you once again.

Ike’s doc. apt. was originally scheduled for Monday but I couldn’t wait any longer and somehow I managed to have the receptionist reschedule his apt for Friday (this past Friday 3/10/06). The day as a whole was a very long, expensive and stressful but it was well worth it.

The results of Ike’s examination were negative. The physical exam, blood test, Echo, and ECG all showed no signs of BCM or any heart problems! As a result, Ike's prognosis is now uncertain. No news was Good News but it now leaves me with more questions then before. The doc. said even though the test results were negative, due to his age and symptoms of the condition, BCM is a possibility but very unlikely.

The doctor said due to Ike’s young age it is very hard to draw any conclusions to make a diagnosis. As a result I have to monitor the next episode he has to determine if the event is actually a Syncope (fainting) or from a seizure which they believe might actually be the reason for these events. The news I received could have been a lot worse but the fact is there still is a problem and the condition is unknown.

Has anyone seen or heard of anything like Ike's condition? I'm not a crazy mess like i was before but I'm still very concerned, like any good owner for there dogs health. Once again I just wanted to say Thannnnk You.. I had a very crazy week last week but the support you guys showed really made a difference.

Sorry for the late reply, I’ll keep you posted sooner next time I promise..

Sincerely,
Jeff n Ike

 

[Net45582]

I know how frustrating something like this can be. Has bloodwork been done to rule out thyroid problems or diabetes? If there is another episode you may want to make note on how long ago the last meal was.Hugs from

 

[Ike8]

Thyroid and Diabetes

Dear Sidhewlf

You know, I’m not positive but I’m almost 85% sure that the blood test that they did was not thyroid or diabetes related. But on that note I will defiantly keep those options in mind and I will also keep close attention to Ike’s diet.

I’m still convinced that there’s still something wrong or maybe I’m just being paranoid but either way Ike’s goofy personality is back and he seems to be doing just fine.

Thanks Sidhewlf for the advice, I’ll keep it mind..

Sincerely,
Jeff N’ Ike

 

[Ike8]

Jill's Boxer

I just wanted say thank you for you support and positive vibes. I really think your positive vibes helped, So I'm sending them all back and in full force. Good luck tomorrow and I wish you the best. Please let me know how it went. Since our situations are very similar I might even be able to offer you some useful advice or info. I hope everything go well..

Sincerely,
Jeff N' Ike

 

[Paws1996]

Jeff, hold on a tick here. Did the cardiologist say anything about, or confirm the heart murmur you mentioned in your original post?

walk us through the entire visit, from the time the doc came into the room to the moment he took ike for the ECG etc.

talk a bit more about Ikes legs getting stiff when he collapsed. when you say stiff, could you bend them at all, were they vlasid? when you say stiff, did the muscles convulse/twitch, did Ike sprawl in any way?

an idea would be to have your video camera handy so that when this happens again, you can quickly catch it on film and show your vet.

 

[Ike8]

Re. Paws1996

Well you hit the nail on the head when you suggested that I record Ike’s next episode with a camcorder because those where the docs exact orders. I’ll try to summarize Ike’s doc apt with the cardiologist @ OSU in the simplest fashion possible. Bare with me, This is pretty long but I want to get the facts straight and i dont want to leave any details out.

1st. The doc. acquired Ike's history. Which I explained the following along with other basic information, weight, diet, age, ect.

Basically I explained to the Doc that Ike has experienced two episodes in the past months. The first episode he experienced he was only about 6 ½ months old and while he was sleeping. I proceeded to explain that Ike was in the middle of a sound sleep and then woke up to a cough which sounded like he was going to through up. Within in few seconds Ike was up on his feet and then just suddenly collapsed and proceeded to have a very short episode. The symptoms that Ike showed during the first episode where the following; excessive drooling, urinations. When I saw him urinate is when I realized something was wrong and quickly reacted by picking him up and rushing him outside. During the event Ike showed no response when I called his name and seemed completely out of it; As soon as I got Ike outside, he went the bathroom and ran back into the house like nothing had happened and acted completely fine.

The Second episode happened about a month later and under almost completely different circumstances. This time Ike collapsed while walking into the house after running and playing hard for 20 minutes outside. Ike started coughing like the first time but not as hard, he then became dizzy and started losing his balance and then finally collapsed to the floor. The symptoms that Ike showed during the second episode where the following: Excessive drooling, Non-responsive, which were like the first episode, but this time he showed a few different symptoms which where; When he collapsed he his legs became very stiff (the muscles tighten) and extended straight out but neither his body nor his legs twitch or convulsed. He also did not urinate this time either. The episode lasted about a minute but his post symptoms were completely different. He was very weak and seemed some what delusional. He tried walking around for a little bit but he was very weak and still seemed dizzy.

2nd the doc then explained the possible heart diseases associated with Ike’s episodes and then explained the test that he will be conducting in order to properly diagnose and treat the condition.

3rd The following test were completed
Physical Exam
Blood work
ECG
Echo

4th the test results where of the following
Physical Exam; 2/6 systolic murmur was asculted over the left heart base,
Blood work; showed not signs of abnormalities
ECG; showed regular rhythm, No abnormalities
Echo; showed no structural or functional abnormalities

5th The doc. Exact prognosis;
Ike’s prognosis is uncertain. The lack of structural heart disease argues against a congenital defect as a cause of the syncope. Also, Boxer Cardiomyopathy (or ARVC) is a consideration, but Ike is younger then patients who typically present with this disease. Strong coughing can induce fainting, but your description of Ike’s events is not consistent with this. At this time, syncope is considered most likely while seizure activity in considered unlikely. No clear cause for syncope is apparent.

The doc then proceeded by recommending me to attempt at a videotape one of Ike’s events if possible as a means to identify and determine of syncope from seizure activity. If they become more frequent he suggested a Holter or Event Monitor.

I should also note that they did not find any evidence of fluid in Ike’s lungs which was originally suggested by the emergency veterinarian. The heart murmur that was found in Ike was explained to me as “a common trait in boxers”, and that its diagnosis itself does not suggest any conditions or problems.

Well that pretty much everthing that i got. Please let me know what you think, I appriciate your concerns and suggestions. Thanks you,

Sincerely,
Jeff N' Ike

 

[KonaKoffe]

I am glad you went to the cardiologist. We did that with Cassius and the prognosis was not as bad as the general vet first thought - as was apparently your situation.

Have they investigated epilepsy?

What about any medications he is on regularly like heartworm. Some heartworms brands ( ie Heartgard) warn about seizures.

 

[Ike8]

Epilepsy, Heartworms

Dear Konakoffe,

At the moment they did not investigate epilepsy, were not sure if its syncope or seizure related episodes. He did however suggest that it might be a possibility but Ike’s not showing enough signs or having enough episodes to diagnosis him yet. On that note the doctor said without enough evidence to suggest a proper diagnosis, placing Ike on medication would possible cause more damage then actually helping him.

You know what I asked the same question, if his symptoms could be heartworm related but after his echo and blood test the doc. rolled that possibility out. As for the heart worm medication, No I am not currently giving Ike any heart worm medication at the moment but i will be placing him on them very soon.

Did cassious have a similar experience? what where the results? Thank you for your imput. I hope 2 hear from you soon.

Sincerely,
Jeff N' Ike

 

[KonaKoffe]

Did cassious have a similar experience? what where the results? Thank you for your imput. I hope 2 hear from you soon.

Sincerely,
Jeff N' Ike

No the regular vet only detected an arrithmia (sp?) and thought he might need medication and suggested we see a cardiologist for a better diagnosis. After seeing the cardiologist it was determined that the condition was not that bad and no medication was needed until he showed signs of getting worse - which he never did. He never had any seizures or symptoms. The vet found the problem on a routine exam. Based on that experience, I always recommend people see a cardiologist before they panic over a possibility or before considering any medication.

I guess for now you have to wait and see what happens. I would suggest doing some internet research on your own on the epilepsy possibility and other seizures anyways - to better prepare yourself on symptoms and treatments.