Boxer brothers fighting...need help!

[Dancerzmomma]

I posted all of this in my intro thread and should have posted here...sorry.

My name is Christy and we are a family of 5 humans (myself, hubby, 2 teen girls, and a nephew) 3 doglet babies (2 white boxer brothers and a shihtzu, all 3 yrs old).
We got Boomer when he was just tiny...and an employee of ours got his brother, Cracker Jack at the same time.
By about the time they were a year or so (maybe a bit younger?) , we took in Cracker Jack...they couldn't take care of him any longer, and would leave him home alone all day and he would do what boxers do...he ate their house!!
Of course, when the wife would come home to the destruction...he would get spanked. (To this day, when he hears her voice, he wets himself all over the floor) :(

Things went great for awhile...everyone got along great.
Suddenly, one morning, Boomer and Cracker Jack got into a huge, horrible fight. Boomer had to have stitches...it was awful. We had Boomer neutered already, so took Cracker Jack to have the same thing done. Everyone said this would fix it...
It happened over and over and over...and I'm talking fight to the death fights.
Numerous trips to the vet, stitches...you name it.

We started separating them full time...only letting them together on leash or with a muzzle.
They would have the muzzles on and try to fight. They would sit across the room from each other with their backs to each other and just seethed.

We have our house all set up for them to stay separate, Cracker Jack stays in one side of the house, Boomer and Latte' basically live in my room.
Our deck and yard are fixed where they are constantly separate.
If they accidently get together...it's on.

We would switch out the big dogs so each could have time in our room with us...and Latte' would 'interact' with both of the boxers. Never a problem.
On Dec 21, Hubby let Cracker in my room with Latte'...and put Boomer in the other room....I went to take a bath, just got in and hubby yelled for me to come help.
Cracker attacked Latte'...(who's only 15 lbs) I jumped out of the tub, saw Latte' hanging from Crackers jaws...OMG...I was sick.
In the process of trying to get in the room to help, I slipped and fell...broke my tailbone and sacrum bone...(Yeah, I've been down ever since from it..it's seriously painful)
My oldest daughter came running in, saw what was happening and got Latte' out of the room. Luckily, Latte was ok, no injuries...just boxer slobber.

So needless to say, now Cracker Jack is totally separated from the other dogs, our first instinct was to place him in boxer rescue...then we even thought to put him down...but we can't let him go. We love him so much.

So now, this is our issue...and I need help, advice...something.
Our house/yard and deck is like a war zone, constantly worried we didn't shut a door good, or the dogs accidently getting together.

SOrry this is so long, maybe you've read through all of it and have some advice??
Thanks so very much.....
I look forward to being a member here.
Christy

 

[Louise501]

Oh you poor things, this must be so difficult. I am not sure if things have gone too far for a behaviourist to be able to help you but I hope somebody can offer you some advice, I can only imagine how difficult this situation is.

 

[BXRBESTFRIND]

Call in a Behaviourist ASAP

Keep them seperated Like you have been doing BUT its time to bring in a professional to help manage the situation.

Im so sorry this happening it must be so hard, and much worse with the broken bones OUCH

Take a look at this thread the first post has so much great contact info its at the top of my Favorites list

http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46555

Good Luck and Keep us posted Ill be keeping a look out for the update

Oh and WELCOME

 

[ehayes21]

eesh! Sounds like you have had a time - is it always Cracker Jack that starts it? If so, have you had a vet take a look to see if there is an underlying medical problem that could be the cause for the aggression? If not, that would be my first suggestion. If he's cleared - I would definitely seek the help of a behaviorist - check the top of the behavior forum, Krikkit put together a great thread on different aggression issues and how to find help. Maybe someone else can give you more ideas - but that's a start. I hope there is a favorable outcome for everyone.

 

[Indy's mom]

I wish I had advice to offer you, but all I can offer is support. It's clear that your heart is in the right place, now I hope that you make a speedy recovery and are able to keep anyone else from getting hurt, even better would be able to find a way for everyone to live in peace. Good luck with the behaviorist.

Please keep us updated, I wish you the best of luck.
Sandy

 

[EAO76]

I agree you need to hire a behaviorist (not a trainer) to help. I know it’s not fun spending the money but it’s unlikely you’ll be able to solve this on your own. Just make sure you find a good one because there are a lot of crappy ones out there. A good place to start is the apdt.com website (you can search by zip code). Good luck & keep us posted.

 

[ELubas]

eesh! Sounds like you have had a time - is it always Cracker Jack that starts it? If so, have you had a vet take a look to see if there is an underlying medical problem that could be the cause for the aggression? If not, that would be my first suggestion. If he's cleared - I would definitely seek the help of a behaviorist - check the top of the behavior forum, Krikkit put together a great thread on different aggression issues and how to find help. Maybe someone else can give you more ideas - but that's a start. I hope there is a favorable outcome for everyone.

Agree a vet check is in order and then some professioanl help. What an awful thing to go through. Hope you are ok and can find some good help through the links here. This must be so stressful for your famlily. You are clearly a very compassionate person to be so committed to this boy-he is lucky to have you all. Please keep us posted.

 

[Dancerzmomma]

Thank you all so much for the links!!
I did find some behaviorists *sortof* close by.
I have narrowed it down to two different ones, so maybe I can get in touch with them.

Yeah, it's been rough...we were walking them together for awhile...Me with Cracker Jack on a leash, and Hubby with Boomer, (we followed alot of the dog whisperer stuff), but they would just not want to be near each other.

Some of my theories on the situation have been:
1st we really thought Cracker Jack was the aggressor, trying to show he was the alpha....and he's very strong. We thought that was the case and Boomer just wasn't willing to let that happen. (he was here first after all)

2nd we thought it was our shih tzu causing the problems, when the big dogs would fight, he'd try to get in the middle...(He IS the alpha dog in the house)
If I would say "NO" to Cracker Jack for any reason, it would cause Latte' the shih tzu to act like "Yeah, cause Momma said so"..and Boomer would 'defend' Latte'...thus starting the fight.

3rd we thought Boomer was 'quietly' the aggressor, as he was here first, and sending 'messages' to Cracker Jack to back off.

These guys will lock on and NOTHING gets them apart.



We thought it was triggered by food, but not sure as it's been so long now since they've been together.

I've had people tell me to:
"Just let them fight it out, who ever wins will be dominant and it will be over"
**Um, can't do that, cause one will be dead**
"Put a shock collar on them"
**I'd rather have help with that , and I can't exactly put a collar on all 3 dogs, if I'm not quite sure which is the aggressor**

"He (Cracker Jack) needs to be put to sleep"
**that's too heavy a decision for me, I DO love my dog and he really is a sweetie**

I thought about when my nephew moves out, he could take Cracker Jack with him, but I'm not 100% comfortable with him being around if there were small children, or other pets...y'know?


Cracker Jack has been vet checked, she doesn't see anything wrong at all...
I wonder if he holds memories from being spanked and punished at his previous home and that's the problem??


The night all the last stuff happened with Cracker attacking Latte' was just awful. Me falling so badly, I couldn't get in the room to help, Hubby was holding Cracker in the air, trying to get him to let loose of Latte'...and all I could see was him hanging out of Crackers mouth.
With all the commotion, hubby didn't realize I fell, when daughter came in and got Latte' , she saw me down and came right back in and said "Um, Daddy....Mommy is hurt"
I was devastated, I didn't know right away that Latte' was ok...thank goodness he's a pretty tough dog. Man, he was MAD...when they finally got him out of Crackers mouth, Latte' was trying to bite Crackers legs....He was MAD!!

So, I thank you all for sending me those links...and I'll let you know how it goes.

Sometime I'll take pictures of our deck and yard and show you how Hubby has it all customized to keep the dogs separate...it's quite unique..LOL!

 

[ehayes21]

In those links we referred you to - there should be a thread about dog/dog aggression, that might help you understand a little about what is going on. Take your time finding a behaviorist - again you want an Applied Animal Behaviorist not a trainer. Perhaps your vet can recommend one. Aside from professional help, do you practice Nothing in Life is Free aka NILF? Here's a good thread on how to implement it in your home. http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103217&highlight=NILF
Basically - you can throw the "Alpha" crap out he window, you want your dogs to see yourself, your husband and your daughter as leaders. This link should help you with that.
A few other resources I can recommend are 3 books by Patricia McConnell:
The Other End of The Leash
How to be the Leader of the Pack
Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy a Multi-Dog Household

I hope you can get the help you need - I feel for ya!

 

[SILLY6PAK]

I also recommend the book Feeling Outnumbered? How to Manage and Enjoy a Multi-Dog Household.
I am a very "soft", nonassertive person but I am a big NILIF believer with the dogs. I have a routine for walks, in and out of the house, meals, everything is done the same way every day and complience is a must. There IS a hiarchy in a pack (at least mine). Sure the dogs see me as alpha but they also have their own ranking in their species. To deny that sets you up for failure because you must deal with the dogs in accordence to how they see each other NOT how you see them (or who was in the house first).

Luckily for me Abby is a firm pack leader so if I control her then she controls the rest. After Abby we have Hope who is trouble. She will rule by intimidation if I allow her. Rex must be fed seperate and never leave Hope alone with Jessie or there will be a blood bath.

We have only had a few scuffles but it is always when I am in a hurry and do not notice the early warning signs.

You are an amazing person. I would not put Cracker Jack down just for being dog aggressive but I think I would rehome him for everyones sake. I am glad you are trying to work it out. Best of Luck.