behavioral/offleash training (...this got a little long)

[otakupunk]

my boy Loki is going on 10 months old. Back when he was 6 months old we had on leash obedience training. Now that he is older I am trying to start off leash training. I was originally going to put him in the off leash class of the trainer i did the onleash training with but there are some things stopping me. The first of which being that I have read many, many books about boxers, training, understanding dog language, etc and each session of the on leash trainging I was left with a "wow you already do this correctly, you and him just need a little practice" which left me feeling that the 400 I spent on classes was a major waste of money (considering i knew the content and just didn't realize i was already doing it right). The off leash is just as expensive if not a little more and I am afraid that this will follow the mood of the last class and i'll be spent feeling even more ripped off.

The reason why i am thinking of this is because a few months back (either 7 or 8 months) he started getting a little too rambuncious when offleash outside in the back yard. If I wanted him to come in or went to put his leash on him so we could go walk he would get jumpy, bark and mouth my hand. I called the trainer and she immedietly said to spend the money on the off leash class. So i played it cool and told how i had been handling it (trying to get some tips for the time being). What I would do is I wouldn't chase after him and give him a minute or 2 to cool down and when he saw i wasn't playing he would get responsive again and then get him on leash and either put him in time out or have him do what i like to call puppy push ups (a series of sits and downs in which i would stop shortly after he would start whining about it) She said what I was doing was correct and it was very good i thought of it and then immediatly tried to get me to sign up for the $400+ off leash class again. Now he very rarely does this and when he does i just solidify his training a little and its stops it. Like everything when training a pup it just takes time, patience and repetition

Instead of just throwing the $400+ on the off leash training what do you all think? I've been reading this board since before i even got my boxer and really value everyone's opinion here. If the overwelming opinion is that i should do the off leash training should i go with the trainer who always tells me I am already doing things correctly or does anybody know of any good trainers that are a little more economical in south east michigan? (college is super expensive for me now and money is really tight, although my dog is worth the extra cash if need be) TIA

 

[JulieM]

Sorry, $400 is an absolutely ridiculous price for an obedience class!! It's obscene!

This site lists clicker trainers by state (I'm a clicker-person):

http://clickerteachers.travelvan.net/mainpage.php

The few that I checked in SE Michigan are about $99 per 6 week session.

I'm sure Dan will be able to give you good advice on this Basically for off-lead you train the same way as you did on-lead, just without the leash. I was trying to find some articles to link for you, but most clicker trainers train off-lead from the start....

I know some people use lighter and lighter weight "leads" (i.e., clothesline, 'plastic' rope, fishing line) so that the dog eventually is weaned to no lead at all. Other people use shorter and shorter leads.

 

[otakupunk]

Thanks for the response JulieM. I thought 400 was a bit much the vet was highly pushing this trainer though thats why i did the initial training with her. and thanks for the link I'll look for a lower priced trainer in my area.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

I think Julie put it pretty well. I too think 400 is an awfully lot to pay for one skill, in a group setting no less.

I would also see if you could perhaps audit one of the classes now ongoing to see if it is going to be of value to you or like the last class.

Julie is also correct in that it is much easier to train off lead from the beginning than to do on-lead and then off. But, we have leash laws; what can we do?

What you describe as your methods now seem fine to me. Off lead is basically the same, as she noted, as on-lead work, except I believe your dog needs to be really well skilled in a few areas first.

Therefore, I always work with my clients extensively on recall, loose leash walking skills and distraction training before even beginning to work on off lead walking. I believe your dog needs to be as reliable and consistent with these skills as possible in order to accomplish much in terms of off lead work, especially distraction training and recall.

Now, I would agree that clicker training is a good way to go for this work and there are many good books out there which can help you (and of course we're here too).

There is also one thing to remember about Boxers and off lead work. Boxers are not the kind of dogs who walk placidly by your side a lot when off lead. Even my two, who are pretty darned trained, don't walk by my side off lead. They like to run and explore, etc., etc. My girls and I walk a lot off lead but they enjoy running around me in circles, chasing each other, playing and so forth. But they get about 30 yards from me and always either stop and wait for me to catch up or come running back to my side. I rarely have to call them to me when off lead. However, only when they are particularly tired do they walk "next" to me. And even then it is near me rather than in a traditional loose lead or heel position. They stop, sniff, mark, etc., while walking along near me.

And, they also are very alert and any squirrel or distraction gets their attention. They are very good about staying and not chasing things, but if I don't catch them when they spot something and tell them to stay, off they go to "get it." Then I have trouble getting them to stop on a dime sometimes and come back. Usually they will run a bit more, stop and then when called again, will come back to me. But it always gives me heart a little extra jerk when they spot something like that. It is something we continue to work on and they are pretty good about always coming back to me. But I also am aware that this may be just something I have to live with.

Now it may just be my girls, or training two at the same time to walk off lead that makes a difference. I do know that when I've taken them out separately they walk nicely for the most part close to me off lead. But put them together and it is of course, PLAYTIME! You may have better results working with only one dog.

And, although I give my girls a lot of freedom off lead, I am still very cautious about it and nervous. I don't fully trust that they will obey me 100% of the time and that makes me uncomfortable unless we are in an enclosed area meant for off leash play, etc. And because in my case we live in a traffic heavy area and I will NOT EVER allow my dogs to walk off lead where they might possibly be hit by a car, we don't get a whole lot of time and space to practice skills either. So, there are a lot of variables in this work.

But, check out the other trainers near you and I'm sure you'll find someone who can help. I also think it is possible for you to do it yourself with the help of a good book. Check out our book section.

Good luck.