"bathroom" to "crate" training?

[Pasdar's Mom]

Pasdar is now approaching 12 weeks of age (he will be this coming Wednesday). When I go to work, I have been putting him in my bathroom. I use not one, but two baby gates across the door, since I found out on the very first day that he could jump over just one. He is paper trained and I use puppy pads under the newspaper for faster and easier cleanup. (Although half the time he has ripped up the pads by the time I come home.) He has become increasingly destructive and messy as the time has gone by. Shredding an entire roll of toilet paper I accidently left within his reach one day, shredding my shower curtain liner, scratching up the door and actually eating the wood on the baby gate.

He absolutely HATES being left in the bathroom. He's crying when I leave, but he's quiet when I come home. He always manages to shut the door on himself, which I think makes it worse, so I'm going to try to use something to keep the door from being pushed shut. I figure, like most puppies, it's normal to cry and fuss a bit. He knows I'm leaving and I think he just hates being left alone, period. However, my roommate says he cries for the full two hours in the morning before she leaves for work, which upsets me as well. So we don't know how long it is before he finally settles down. One morning the neighbor came over to complain, saying his crying was keeping him and his wife awake. (I have to be at work at 5 AM, so I can understand this complaint, which came on a Sunday morning.)

How do I make a transition to crate training now? I didn't want to leave him in a crate for so many hours until he was old enough to 'hold it' for a while. (My standard work shift is 5 AM -1 PM.) I still don't expect him to hold it the entire time I'm gone, but I figure a big enough crate could have enough room for a puppy pad and some papers, making a designated potty area so he will learn to separate his space. And at three months I figure he's big enough to learn this. His housebreaking is touch and go right now. Some days he completely gets it, and other days he acts like he just doesn't care. One day he'll sniff and go towards the door or walk in circles, the next day he gives no signals whatsoever. Will crate training aid with housebreaking as well? I've trained dogs before but never attempted crate training. The two dogs I previously trained were SO easy in comparison to Pasdar. The first had already learned the concept of "outside" before I got him (from his parents) and then the second seemed to learn by watching the first. He had no experience with going outside until I brought him home, and he doesn't seem to grasp the idea of why we go out there. I think the times we're successful is a mixture of pure luck and timing his feeding to going out time. I always praise him and basically go bonkers with happiness to teach him that outside is the place to go. But he doesn't seem to be connecting that to WHERE he goes.

Any and all suggestions and comments are welcome. My roommate's favorite thing to say to him is "why are you so cute? I want to be mad at you so stop being so cute all the time!" She's never lived with a puppy before and I think she thought he'd be 100% housebroken in about a week.

 

[tanyaj77]

Hi Ana,
I tried to be the nice mommy and left boz gated in the kitchen when I first got him. BIG MISTAKE!! He got into so many things!! I personally feel that a crate is the safest place for a puppy.
Boz was pretty small when we started crating him and we were gone to work for 8 hours a day so we divided the crate with a section for him to sleep, and a section for him to pee. Sometimes he peed in his sleep section, but that's what puppies do. He did learn very quickly and in no time at all he was holding it all night. We did try the papers in the crate, but he liked to rip them up and make a terrible mess so we just left it as is.
As for the crying, puppies will do this as they're lonely. It might help if you left a stuffed animal in his bed. I have heard of people wrapping clocks in towels so the pup thinks it's his mothers heartbeat.
Don't worry, your baby will learn and adjust in no time at all. It just takes lots of patience and love :D
Keep us posted on your baby's progress!!

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Well now this is a dilemma.

You ask if crating the dog will help in housebreaking him. However, you plan to keep the dog in the crate for 8 hours and have a "place" in the crate for him to pee and poop. If you do this, you won't be aiding the housebreaking any at all and in fact, will be doing more to hinder it.

Right now the dog thinks the proper place to eliminate is on the paper/pads that you leave. This is what YOU have taught the dog and this is what he thinks is proper now. To change that routine and have the dog then eliminate in a crate, where he is supposed to sleep and eat and drink is NOT A GOOD IDEA. A dog should not be allowed to eliminate in the crate. The crate is for sleeping and resting and the dog's safe place. Not a bathroom. The crate should be divided so that it is only big enough for the dog to lie down, sit, turn around and be comfortable. No extra room for him to go potty in the corner or in back.

Do you plan to train the dog to go outside? If so, you need to start doing that RIGHT NOW. If not, you're going to have one heck of a time retraining the dog to go outside after he has already learned to go on pads or to go in his crate (please don't do this).

You say you have a roommate. Can your roommate take the dog out for potty before she goes to work? That way, you take the dog out before you go at 5:00am and if the roommate goes to work later, then the dog can go out again prior to being left alone, and thus will have to be left alone and "hold it" for less time. This would be a much better solution. Or, if one of you (or both) can come home during lunch and take the dog out, that's terrific as well. But since you're home by 1:00pm, that may not be necessary, especially when the dog matures more.

Secondly, as for destructive behaviors, make sure the dog is fully and vigorously exercised BEFORE you leave for work each day. This will make the dog tired and he will sleep rather than whine and bark and be afraid of being alone. That's where the crate comes in. The crate is the dog's "safe place" and should be there for him to feel safe, comfortable and happy. It should never be used for punishment, banishment or anything other than the dog's "room." A place only for the dog. And the crate should be filled with the dog's toys and things to keep him occupied during the day. Treats hidden in Kong toys are great to keep the dog amused and occupied and not whining and crying all the time when you leave.

Also, when you leave the dog, just leave. Don't coddle the dog, baby talk it or feel badly and goo goo over it. Just leave. Make it a non-event so the dog doesn't get upset. It should be like going to the bathroom. No big deal. You go, you come back. No big production about it.

Your dog should be able to "hold it" for about 4 hours at a time at his age now. Generally, it is about an hour for every month of age. So guide yourself accordingly.

So, here's the schedule I would suggest: You get up at say, 4:00am. Take the pup out for business. Take a jog with the dog or play or whatever, but exercise the dog and work off all the energy you can before coming home. Feed the dog, put him in the crate and get ready for work. Before going to work, take the dog out again for elimination and then back into the crate and go to work.

Have your roommate take the dog out for potty when she gets up, and then again, exercise the dog fully and crate him. Then before she goes to work, take the pup out again for potty and return him to his crate.

Then, when you get home, the dog has only been in the crate about 4 to 5 hours. You'll have some accidents, for sure, but in a few weeks, they should stop and the dog will get his new routine down and learn that he goes outside and when.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Pasdar's Mom]

Thanks to those who have replied. The one thing I want to point out (since I posted this to two mailing lists as well and EVERYONE has said the same thing) I and I alone am responsible for this dog. He is MINE, not my roommate's. She's got a cat (who can't stand the dog) and she doesn't have time for him in the morning. (Nor should she have to - he's not her dog.) Her room is off limits to him (at least until he's old enough to stay out of trouble). Also, we both work too far from home to come home during the work day. (That is, if either of us got breaks so that going home would even be an option.)

So let's just forget about the whole roommate thing. Our bedrooms are in opposite ends of a large and nearly sound proofed apartment. My bathroom is inside my bedroom. When I leave he has no clue if anyone is in the apartment or not. He's not crying because he hears her. He's crying because he's being left alone. I'm sure there are plenty of people who live alone and have dogs.

The other thing I wanted to point out is the idea that I have taught him the habits he has. He came to me paper trained. The dogs I've had previously never had that training, they were taught directly to go outside. Seeing that he will have to be left alone longer than he can be expected to hold it, I thought it might have been some sort of blessing. A designated potty area. Instead, I have a dog that understands the paper concept, but outside the bathroom, goes where ever he sees fit (which is anywhere he happens to be).

I know it will get better in time, but right now it's frustrating to come home every day and clean the bathroom top to bottom and give the dog a bath (stepping in it dosn't seem to bother him at all.)

One last thing, the last few days when I've come home he's been in the bathtub. I find this peculiar behavior, and it actually made me wonder if he was looking for a crate like enviornment to feel safer in. Which is part of the reason I started thinking of a crate to begin with.

 

[Jan]

Okay, so the roommate isn't going to help.

You are gone far too long, so crating really isn't an option. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't crate train as that is always a good idea. Is there room in the bathroom for a crate? As you suggested, finding him in the bathtub room may indicate that he is looking for a little security. If there is room, you could put the crate in the bathroom for him to sleep in. I would suggest though, that you take the door off of the crate, so that it doesn't get closed by accident. The crate could maybe even go in the bathtub if there is room. Another alternative, would be to put the newspapers in the bathtub. If he was to go in there he might be less inclined to walk in it. :( He would then have the rest of the bathroom to play in.

Since you have no alternative, but to use newspapers during the day, it's just going to take longer to train Pasdar to go outside the rest of the time. Do you leave the newspapers down when you are home? You could try hanging bells on the door so he can tell you when he needs to go out. A lot of people have had sucess with this. If you do a search on bells, you will find lots of posts on this.

Pasdar will get the idea eventually. It's just going to take a little longer, since sometimes he is expected to go inside and sometimes outside.

Good luck!

 

[Mandithemush]

Hi I have just one thing to add. I noticed you asked how to get the dog to go outside. I would bring a soiled paper outside and then they get the hint what to do. Make them smell it. I also trained my dogs to go on command, which is very easy to do. When they are eliminating say a word ( I use hurry up) and they soon associate this word or words to mean eliminating. You have to say it as they are going though not after they are done. They need to know what it is as they are doing it.
I am also having a tough time housebreaking. You can read my post under Please help stinky puppy questions?( the boxer ring) Don't feel bad its not easy!
I'm having the problem with the crate that she just barks and her mouth foams and drools because she is so upset. When we first got her she used to poop in there and I would have to bath her every time I got home. NOT FUN!! I know how you feel. My husband doesn't want her sleeping in our bed anymore because then both dogs come in and he sleeps cramped up all night long because as we know they don't move once they are sleeping. Tonight I have to put Lexi in the crate and I guarentee she will cry or bark a good part of the night. We try to ignore her but she wakes the whole house up and they need the sleep. I don't know what to do?
P.S. Tulsa-Dan has good advice, I seen it before too. Are you a professional trainer?
Good Luck!!!

 

[buddy'smom]

I totally agree with Tulsa Dan and Jan on the advice they have given to you.

I do have an article on leaving a dog Home Alone and separation anxiety that pretty much says what Dan has mentioned, but it is a good read, and I know I saw myself in it. Here is the link

http://www.cappdt.ca/homealone.htm

and another on separation anxiety. It explains how it comes to be and how to deal with it.

http://www.cappdt.ca/separation_anxiety.htm

Good luck
Jean

 

[Scorpio]

Do you have a dog day care around where you live or is there a young student or friend that could come over and take him out for a run during the day or after school? or a baby sitter for dogs. We have a lady and husband team that do dog sitting for people in situations like your. Just a suggestion ..