Bad yard behavior

[clearlykoi]

I am at my whits end with Thor. He is 6 1/2 months old, and over all, a very good boy. He knows sit, lay, shake, dance, and come and stay (when he wants too--see below).

But recently I put in a pond for my koi, and he has decided it is his personally tub. I can't risk him ripping the liner, or injuring my fish, or himself for that matter.

When I first notice him in/or too close to it, I automatically yell at him to GET OUT. Which is what I use to get my dogs out of certain areas.

My problem is I know I can't tell him he's bad AFTER he's gotten out of the pond, because being out is the good behavior. But I can't get to him in time/nor do I want him in the pond ANY longer, to enforce the "bad dog" thing.

Also, he is the most sensitive dog I've ever seen. Even after telling him he's a bad dog, he'll refuse to come near me for hours. Which brings me too another problem...... I CAN"T CATCH HIM! and when he KNOWS he's in trouble, or has been in trouble. he runs (stays in yard).

To make it even more fun, I have a bulldog who also takes it personal when Thor gets in trouble. But my bulldog (in true bulldog nature) acts like nothing I say matters, untill after Im done scolding, and then he tries to make up with cuddling and such.

So I've got 2 dogs, with 2 different "training needs" and I am at a loss.

 

[P's Poppa]

Boxer+water=

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

When you yell at your dogs, they become afraid of you. That is why you can't get the dog to come to you. STOP YELLING AT YOUR DOG (he said, yelling at you!).

Get into an obedience class. They will teach you the proper way to handle these situations. Until the dog is properly trained, try putting up a barrier around your koi pond to keep the dogs out instead of yelling at them, which is obviously not doing any good. If it isn't working, why do you keep doing it?

If not a barrier, then keep the dog on leash and guide him into the proper behavior, rather than yelling and scaring him half to death and making him afraid of you.

 

[clearlykoi]

Yelling

Let me clear some things up that I apparently didn't make clear.

I yell at my boxer ONLY when he is in the pond, and the primary reason is the distance between me and the pond. By the time I walk over to the pond (running would excite him, and risk a torn pond liner) he is already out of the pond. So how am I suppose to "guide him into the right behavior" when he is already OUT of the pond by the time I can reach him.

I praise him when he isn't by the pond, and we keep our play time away from the pond also.

I DO scold my dogs, and in a firm, but NOT yelling voice, tell them they are bad when they've done things wrong. In fact, I don't even say "bad dog", I say "no bite', "no jump" ect. so they know WHAT they did wrong.

I trully do not believe that Thor runs from me because he is scared. His actions tell me its a Game to him. "Lets see if Momma can catch me!".

I plan on putting a barrier around the pond, but I'd rather have a well trained dog than a dog that is just blocked away from an area.

My questions simply are these =

How do I guide him into a positive behavior, when he's already out of the bad behavior?

How do I teach him that "come" does not mean, lets play chase the puppy? Let me also add that he KNOWS the command "come" and does exhibit it often.

I appreciate the response, and appologize for my lack of clarification.

 

[JulieM]

The key is management. Don't let him off-lead around the pond until he knows that he is not supposed to be in the pond, and don't let him off-lead until you know he's reliable on a recall. Every time you tell him to 'come' and then chase him around, you're teaching him that you don't really mean it when you give the cue.

How do I guide him into a positive behavior, when he's already out of the bad behavior?

What Dan said was "keep the dog on leash and guide him into the proper behavior," - work with him around the pond but if he gets too close give him an alternate cue - leave it, come, sit, down, watch me, whatever. Again, until he knows that he's not supposed to be in the pond, don't give him the opportunity to be in it. It is probably a self-reinforcing act, which means that every time he does it, the likelihood of him doing it again increases.

There are several threads in the forums on training a recall, a search will give you lots of good tips there. As for the pond - barrier training will work well with this (this does not mean a physical barrier - or at least, not a large or permanent one). Some good articles on how to barrier train are here:
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/barrier.txt
http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/bbarrier.txt

(Actually, there are quite a few good tips on recall at that site, too: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/problem.html)

I agree with Dan - obedience training will help immensely as it will show you how to deal with these problems in a manner appropriate for your dog. Since you say he is very sensitive and won't come near you after you tell him he's a bad dog, I recommend a class that does not use corrections or aversives (I also recommend not telling him he's a bad dog anymore).

 

[Jan]

Why don't you get Thor a pool of his own to play in. You can get them pretty cheap at Wal-Mart etc. and then he won't be so interested in the Koi pond.

Never chase your puppy when you want him to come. If you run in the opposite direction he will probably come chasing after you. When he catches up to you, praise like crazy.

 

[clearlykoi]

Thank you The articles were very good, and gave me some ideas to start with.

I have looked into training with Thor, and my older bulldog, but haven't gone too any classes for a variety of reasons. I've found sights like this very helpfull in learning what I've had problems in.

Like I said before, Thor (and Bay) are both very well behaved, except this problem.

Im very glad you pointed out that Dan said while thor was on the leash, vs what I was thinking, of just guiding him into the right behavior. It makes much more sense!

I quit what could be called "chasing" (walking to him, once he sat) And now call him to come. Once I reach for him, he runs and grabs a toy to play with (which is why I dont think he's afraid) He brings back the toy, and just wants to play.
I've been rewarding him with praise and such so he sits longer, but still he'll only do it so long. Its getting better though.

So....... My new question

Since I don't tell him he's a bad boy, and I just say "no bite, no ect", and he takes that personal, do I quit that, and just reward the good behavior, and try to alter the bad action with new command when he does it?

 

[clearlykoi]

Also

Thor does have his own small kiddie pool....

But the koi and pond plants are much more interesting to him.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Originally posted by clearlykoi
Thank you So....... My new question

Since I don't tell him he's a bad boy, and I just say "no bite, no ect", and he takes that personal, do I quit that, and just reward the good behavior, and try to alter the bad action with new command when he does it?

A simple "Negative Reinforcement Marker" would be to simply turn your back on your dog, fold your arms across your chest and say "Uh Oh!" or "Sorry" and ignore the dog's bad behavior by turning your back on him and walking away. Similarly to the way you teach a dog to stop nipping. The dog obviously has made some sort of negative association with "No" so you need to try another word. As Julie said, try the "leave it" command or some other command instead of "no bite" or "no pond" etc. And NEVER use the word "No" and the dog's name in the same sentence. Never say things like "Thor! NO!" His name and your calling him should always and forever be associated by the dog with the best things in his life. This will help with the recall as well if the dog understands that coming to you when you call is always going to be a good thing and he is always going to be loved, rewarded, petted or some such that he likes. Never scolded. It is best to ignore bad behavior, guide and reward the good behavior.

You might want to take a look at the book section here at Boxerworld if you arent' ready for obedience classes yet and find a couply of good training books that are recommended there.

Good luck.

 

[dawn wiley]

try this book!

Smarter than you THINK by Paul Loeb. Your whole scene sounds like it could come out of the pages! He emphasizes the recall but uses a unique way to get your point across at a distance which sounds like it ought to help you! Also, he says to bring the dog back to the crime scene and let them know you're not happy about what went on there....they'll get the message. Dogs are smarter than "they wont remember what they did" HA! they just file away the memory that they didn't get caught and remember how not to get caught next time.
Good Luck and hope you find the book. It seems to be working with my skeemer, plus he loves all the new attention!