any suggestions?

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ownedbyspike

Boxer Pal
I have a 4 year old fawn male boxer Spike that I have had for only two years now. Spike lived with people that left him in the back yard with no shelter(now terifed of thunder storms and the dark)he was also beaten with a broom by the owner (adult female and 6 yr. old boy).My kids ages 15,13,10, and 8 have never had a problem with Spike being aggressive them, however neibhorhood children are scared to death of my dog. Each time Spike is around other kids i have to harness him. Spike growls,barks,pulls,stands on hind legs,and the hair on his back stand up?This does not matter if we are in my house,yard,even at the park. I do not understand this? Please any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.
 

Guisseppemom

Boxer Pal
My first suggestion would be to get him off a harness in those situations, as the harness is encouraging him to pull and strain. If you look at any working PP dogs a harness is exactly what they use to enforce the rearing up, pulling and lunging. I would put him in a collar and every time he makes a sound, ie-growling and barking, pop the leash as a correction and No in a loud firm voice. I am not sure how your Boxer is, mine really wants to please me, but is also stubborn, so he requires constant and consistent re-enforcement. I would be very careful in your situation, in fact I would seek out an experienced trainer to work with you and him. If he were to get away from you during this, those kids would be bait and you would have some serious issues at hand and most likely regrets for the rest of your life.
 

LILYLARUE

Boxer Insane
Wonderful of you to rescue! Bless you!

I think first off, he has accepted you and your family as his pack. I have found with rescues, that they can become overprotective of their packs once they have that trust built. Now that you can see his protective nature, you have to deal with becoming more of a strong leader. The dog now has to learn to trust you to protect him and your family, not the other way around.

There are many experienced owner's that have or are dealing with this issue. I certainly hope they pop in with some great suggestions and some good reading material. I am dealing with an over protective rescue and a fear aggressive boxer at the moment, so learning all I can as well. You are not alone!
 

TwoDogs

Boxer Insane
Having never seen your dog, I can only make broad, blanket statements about aggession in general. It would be in your best interests to have a qualified behaviorist evaluate your dog in order to see what is driving the aggression. However, I do have a feeling, given your description of his behavior and his history, that your dog has a general distrust of strange children. If this is the case, he is likely displaying fear aggressive behaviors. The best way to deal with fear aggression is NOT to try and punish it away with collar pops and the like. If kids make him anxious anyway, and then everytime kids come around, you add pain and/or discomfort to the situation, it will only make him more anxious about kids being around and the behaviors will increase, not decrease--exactly the opposite of what you want.

What you want to do is to change the emotional response that your dog has to the thing that is causing him fear. You need to desensitize your dog to strange children and counter-condition a different emotional response to them. The key to doing so is to make something extremely pleasant occur whenever strange kids are in the picture--like the appearance of great tasty treats--and to work at a distance that keeps your dog under threshold. Employ a treat and retreat technique when kids appear, treats come out and are fed, and then you retreat from the kids. Vary that with having the kids be the ones to retreat sometimes. It may take a long time, and he may never be completely comfortable with all the things that kids tend to do to and around dogs, but he will get better with time, patience, and consistency.

Here are some articles that help understand how counter conditioning and desensitization can help with fear aggression as well as how to implement a DS/CC plan.
Overcoming Social Phobias in Pets: Desensitization and Counterconditioning on MedicineNet
ASPCA - Virtual Pet Behaviorist
 

TwoDogs

Boxer Insane
Just to clarify a bit, the lunging, growling, barking, pulling behaviors by themselves aren't necessarily indicative of aggression. They could just be an frustrated, exhuberant boxer trying to get to see the kids and being obnoxious and vocal about it. However, the pilo-erection (raised hackles) can be a "distancing increasing signal" the same as a raised lip can, and as such is suggestive of a level of fear or discomfort with the kids. When combined with the other behaviors, the whole package could be a defensive display.

Of course, I'll state again that only someone who has observed the dog's behavior up to, including, and after the incident can accurately say what is occurring and is in a position to offer advice.

It would be interesting to see video or get a more detailed discription of his behaviors. There is often alot of "stuff" that goes on, and the dog is really reacting long before we think they are. For example, when does he really first react (distance of trigger), and in what kind of situations. What is his initial body posture and stance--forward on tip-toes, low and crouched, weight in the rear feet? When does the hair begin to stand on end--at first sight of kids, when they approach? Does it lower if they retreat? Are his pupils dilated? Is his mouth relaxed, lips drawn back, or corners of the mouth relaxed or pursed? Are his ears forward and erect, or back and flattened? Does he offer any signs of stress or calming signals such as head turns, lip licking, whale eye, etc? What is his tail carriage--high and still, tucked, high and fast wag, even, slow steady wag? Does he drool or do his paws sweat? Does he offer any of these behaviors at a certain point and then change and offer different behaviors when there is a change in the distance or actions of the kids? No one behavior occurs in a vaccuum and the only way to get an accurate picture is to observe the behaviors in the context of his other behaviors and as the situation is occurring.
 

ownedbyspike

Boxer Pal
more details for twodogs

Let me start off by saying thank you for you advice.I was using the harness and collar pops with the loud NO, already tried that and Spike now only has became fearfull of me and like you said,it has in my opinion made his behavior towards children far worse.

In reply to your first post I am not able to post a video, but can try to explain in more detail Spikes behaivor around children.As soon as unknown childen are in eyesite of my dog the raised hairs on back come up, low growl, ears up,forard on tips of toes,pupils dilated,lips drawn back and corners pursed,tail carriage is still and straight out.As the child comes closer Spike always backs(rear end first)into my feet and sits,he does this everytime no matter if say sit or not.The closer a child gets he becomes very fearfull.Eyes bulging,ears down,tail tucked,head low,turns head left to right slowly,breathing becomes faster,and he shakes with fear.If the child puts out his hand(without making eye contact, this seems also to make Spikes behavior worse) my dog will almost always nip(not bit) and turn his head to the left.

As for now I am going the seek the help of a behaviorlist.The harness is gone and going back to just the collar. Also I a going to try the treats with new kids.I cannot express feelings of how greatfull I am to your post because I really think and pray this will be a happy start to helping Spike.You have no idea how many vets I spoke to and EVERYONE of them said to have him put down.In my heart I know my dog is not mean just a very scared boy because of his past.Again I thank you and will keep BW posted on how things go!
 

TwoDogs

Boxer Insane
That is a very good description of Spike's reaction. I commend you on taking the time to really observe his behavior during those circumstances. From what you described, it sounds very much like Spike is truely afraid. Definitely find a behaviorist that is used to dealing with fearful dogs and fear aggression.

One thing to make very clear. I do NOT recommend that the kids be the ones to feed Spike. That would put them entirely too close to him too early in his desensitization and counter conditioning program. Until Spike is enthusiastically and eagerly greeting the kids on his own (which will probably be quite a long time away), kids shouldn't feed him directly from their hands. All treats should come from you. At a certain point in his program, the behaviorist may recommend that kids toss treats to him from a distance, that would be alright (as long as Spike is okay with the tossing action), but definitely nothing from the kids hands anytime soon.

Good luck!
 
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