Aggression issue? Biting...Help

[SloppyKisses]

Hi - thank you for reading this post. I feel desperate...

Our dog is a rescue about 2 years old. We have had him for about a year and three months. He is a white male, and is submissive with my husband - questionable with me (at times submissive, at times not.)

UNTIL TODAY HE HAS BEEN EXTRAORDINARY WITH OUR 11 mo. OLD DAUGHTER (human daughter).

He has let he pull on his floppy lips, pull on his ears, lay on him, even one day eat out of his bowl with him (this as I turned my back!).

About 20 minutes ago I was in the kitchen (we have a childproof gate), he and our daughter were standing at the gate as I was in the kitchen - i had my back turned and heard him growl a NASTY growl and my daughter began hysterically crying - he bit her. On the shoulder.

I wish I had seen exactly what happened. he has NEVER been aggressive with a child before. He is around them all the time. He plays all the time.

I screamed at him, picked up my daughter - my sleeping husband sprang out of bed and gave our pooch a smack and sent him to his *room.* (crate).

My daughter has a bump from a tooth mark - but no bleeding.

A few months ago we had a smaller dog that was aggressive with both our boxer and our daughter so we found her a new home. The noise he made was similiar to when he was defending himself against the small dog.

Now there has been a lot going on the past few days -- hubby is a police officer stuck on 24 hour patrol due to weather. Suddenly our dog has stopped eating his food lately (Pedigree -- his sudden stoppage of eating began when Pedigree added these new bites to their food -- he hates them - so we need ot get a new food).
There is a mountain of snow outside which has freaked him out too. He disapears when he goes outside.

ALSO -- althought he has NEVER EVER EVER displayed ANY sort of food aggression, on the other side of the gate - in the kitchen was a bowl of his food from breakfast which he once again did not eat.



Other aggression issues - he is ONLY aggressive with me when my hubby is around. I am definitly the one who lets him sleep on the bed - get snakcs, cuddle --- etc. I am not certain why the aggression only when my hubby is around. When he and I are hoem alone he is submissive to me. (by aggression I mean growling and once he bit me).

I admit my initial reaction to todays episode was to take him to the vet and put him to sleep - but i have cooled off now, what ideas do you have?

ANY IDEAS?? I appreciate any help.

Thank you.
A.J.

 

[Nicole510]

AJ,

Wow. I'm sorry to hear that your first reaction was to have the dog put down but I guess I sort of understand the shock of the situation.

Do you know the dog's history?

I'm quite sure many on this board will have 100% better advice for you and I don't have kids but MY first thought was why did you have an 11month old alone with a dog that you've known to be slightly aggressive?

Please, I don't mean to sound harsh...I'm just curious. I have little neighbor kids that are poking sticks through my fence all summer and try to feed my dogs rocks. I get so nervous that I won't let the dogs out alone. My nervousness comes from the fact that these are animals and I can't be certain how they will react to a stick in the eye, etc. I would feel horrible if those kids got bit...they're fault or not.

Could your daughter have poked him in the eye? Could she have yanked an ear?

I'm not an advocate for 'smacking' a dog or sending them to their crate for 'punishment'. Dog's do not have a long memory. By the time your husband jumped up and came and gave the dog a 'smack' the dog probably had no idea what it was getting hit for. This doesn't seem like the best method with a dog who has a tendency towards aggression.

Like I said...someone else on this board will give you much better advice. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

First, get the dog into obedience training asap.

Secondly, if the dog is giving warnings, why would you continue to do whatever it is that the dog is warning you not to do (gowling)? This is the time to manage aggressive behavior by NOT pushing the dog's limits.

It would be impossible to know exactly what has triggered these episodes or biting and growling. I would suggest getting in touch with a behaviorist in your area and get this issue cleared up ASAP, before it gets any worse.

I also recommend highly the books "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson and also by Ms. Donaldson "Mine"

In addition, you should realign your and your family's relationship with the dog. To that end, I suggesting getting a copy of "The Dog Listener" by Jan Fennell.

Good luck.

 

[SloppyKisses]

SOME CLARITY ON MY FIRST POST:


To Dan:

Your quote"Secondly, if the dog is giving warnings, why would you continue to do whatever it is that the dog is warning you not to do (gowling)? "

Where in my post did I EVER say I continued to do something when the dog growled??

PErhaps I was unclear. There have been two incidents in which our dog has been aggressive with me. They were Sept. '02 and Nov. 02 Both incidents occured when my husband was home - he has NEVER EVER shown any agressive behavior outside of both incidents - one incident I approached him to grab his collar (it was similiar to what another poster once posted about - and now we no longer have his collar on him while he is in the house - which was advice I read on the board). That was the incident in which he bit me - a non broken skin bite - which more or less scared the shit out of me! My parents have raised dogs for years - but never Boxers which are a different sort of breed.

The second incident of aggression was in November and I am not certain waht caused it. We worked with a behavioralist afterwards - in which I basically was told I am too submissive to him (as I mentioned in my first post I tend to let him get away with things).

The incident today just stunned me. Like I mentioned before he has NEVER shown any signs of aggression to anyone by myself in those two incidents. But it did leave me cautious.

To the first poster - as far as leaving her alone with him -- I again, was not clear (when I wrote the post I was upset - so please stay with me here - I think I left a lot of key information out!) I apologize for that!

I never leave my daughter alone with the dog - I was in the kitchen and she was behind me - the thing separating us with a two foot high doggie/child gate. The dog was standing next to her - sitting next to her actually. PErfectly content. I really think the incident occured due to the fact that there has been a great deal going on around her ein the last twenty-four hours.

His history includes a LOT of neglect (he was crated for 24-36 hours) in his old home.

I think the advice I am looking for - I think there is some concern here as to how to set up the family hierarchy. I mean - really making it clear here who is Alpha int he household. When my husband is around our pooch ignores me and my commands - is this a display that he is alpha over me or is it just that he is submissive to my hubby - any thoughts on this? I woudl like for him to listent o us both.

I must also agree with the smacking thing - I think it was out of shock my hubby reacted that way - as we normally do "time outs" and such (Crate time - we say "Go to your room" and he will go to his crate and sit till we get him) when he misbahves - which seems to work for him. Realistically it would be instant human nature to want to protect one's child - so I think that reaction was quite normal.

THank you again for advice in advance,
AJ

 

[SloppyKisses]

To Dan:

Thank you for the book suggestions - I am hoping on over to Amazon to order them. I see they have many exccellent reviews.

I have read several other books - Second Hand Dog and ... oh shoot I cannot remember the other book - but neither were really full of useful information (in my experience). I have always been around veru submissive breeds growing up - and this is my first Boxer.

Which as I have read and heard it is important to establish who is dominant in the house.

We just adore the heck out of him - he is truly a clown, and so snuggly and cuddly.

We have worked through several other problems with him - with our behavioralist. The home he came from had a great deal of domestic violence (we had to show him humans touching one another can be gentleand good - when we first got him it would upset him to see my hubby and I hug - he thought me hubby was trying to hurt me), that is in the past now. The other issue was SEVERE separation anxiety. We have him on Valarian (SP?) root 2x a day which I honestly have seen improvement with.

He was also difficult to train - we worked with a trainer - he knew NO commands when we adopted him. Plus he had several name changes while in rescue (apparently the foster parents for him decided they didnt like his name - he has had about 4) we kept the name Rescue gave him. But through a trainer we were able to work with him and he knows many commands - Sit, Stay, Off, Down, Go to Your Room, Come, Shake, -- we have really worked a lot with him.

I may have sounded quite non-chalant when I posted my first message.

It just shocked me today - I am contacting our behavioralist (I called her immediately after the incident). A

Thank you again,
AJ

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Sorry I misinterpreted your original post. Somehow I thought you said the dog growled before he bit you, but I re-read it and I was temporarily insane I guess My apologies.

Sounds like you are doing all the right things. Your behaviorist will be able to help, I'm sure.

As for establishing heirarchy in the home, "The Dog Listener" is your best bet. This will help you establish the pack order, including teaching the dog that you AND your children are ABOVE the dog in the pecking order, not the other way around.

Best of luck.

 

[Nicole510]

AJ,

I received the same sort of advice from my behaviorist as you did from yours regarding establishing a hierarchy.

Some of the advice we got was to make the dog sit before everything. Sit before dinner, sit before a treat, sit before being petted, sit before going outside. We were also told to not let her up on the furniture unless we 'invited' her up. Which meant every time she got up there on her own she was told off. We also were instructed not to let her sit in our laps, jump on us when we came home...etc. When we came home from work we were advised to walk right past her, put our stuff away and get settled, THEN call her over and give her attention.

It was hard at first because I'm such a sucker but following the advice helped tremendously. This might sound a bit batty but maybe Tulsa-Dan has an answer...

Could the dog possibly be looking at the baby as competition? Like another puppy? Just curious...the thought occurred to me but I don't know if it's the sort of thing that happens.

Looking at it from the dog's point of view...AJ is spoiling the dog and I'm sure spoiling the baby and the dog goes from being crated to getting all this attention. The baby could be a rival?

Just a thought.

 

[SloppyKisses]

Nicole!

I am very excited to read the books Tulsa-Dan recommended!

Some of the advice we got was to make the dog sit before everything. Sit before dinner, sit before a treat, sit before being petted, sit before going outside. We were also told to not let her up on the furniture unless we 'invited' her up. Which meant every time she got up there on her own she was told off. We also were instructed not to let her sit in our laps, jump on us when we came home...etc. When we came home from work we were advised to walk right past her, put our stuff away and get
settled, THEN call her over and give her attention

We were told the same thing about not letting him on the furniture w/o being invited - I am so horrible about that -- those eyes get me everytime..and I let him sit in my lap ALL the time -- he climbs up on the sofa - the other day I was just sitting on the floor with him on one knee and my daughter on the other...

And after this morning's incident - around noonish hubby and I were watching tv with baby and dog...and there everything was back to normal - baby was lying on dog watching t.v. and he was sleeping.

After he was let out of his crate he ran right up to our daughter and started giving her tons of kisses (of course causing her to errupt in hysterical laughter). And later he was lying on the sofa and she was doing her usual tugging at his lips (I was a little nervous about this).

I do think there is some sort of jealousy evolving here - the incident in the kitchen - both dog and baby were trying to get my attention --- so perhaps it caused the *fight*.

I think I am really going to need to buckle down and be more intent with our training and returning to the sit before everything rule. My husband is so much better at this than I am!

Hubby thinks that Cowboy is submissive to me when he is not arround; but once he comes home Cowboy is submissive to him and wants to be Alpha to me...and it almost seems that he wants to own me...

hmmm, once again the human needs the training...

thank you!!
AJ

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Since both the dog and your daughter were vying for your attention at the same time (seemingly to the dog, like you were on the other side of the fence and he wanted to play, as did the "other dog," your daughter.

It appears to me that your dog thinks of your daughter as a littermate. This must stop immediately! "The Dog Listener" will be of great assistance in realigning the relationship between the dog and ALL family members.

What it would appear happened is a case of "Redirected Aggression." This is fairly common among dogs.

"Redirected aggression is aggression that is consistently directed toward a third party when the dog is interrupted or prevented from directing the behavior toward the original target."

The dog, when excited or aroused, no matter the original cause, will turn and "unload" the aggression or frustration onto the closest or most available target.

The third party is often someone (a human or dog) who was not involved in the original cause. The original cause may be a squirrel, another dog, a person OR situation. The third party is someone who was not involved in the original stimuli.

This can be caused by provoked frustration and over-stimulation and maintained by giving the dog the wrong signals when it occurs. It can occur when the dog is already in high arousal mode and often occurs in locations where dogs are liable to come into contact with each other because of restricted space (e.g., two dogs running along a fence barking at the neighbor cat).

Please ask your behaviorist for information on how to deal with "redirected aggression" in your session.

Good luck.

 

[Nicole510]

So everytime I read a reply I think of something else. Sorrrrrry.

Does Cowboy stand over you? We had a problem with that too. If Cowboy straddles you while you lay on the floor or straddles your leg while you sit...that's a show of dominance that you shouldn't tolerate. My male dog did this as a puppy.

Also...knock it off with the baby voice. I KNOW you make it because so do I. The 'who's mommy's little Cowboyyy?' voice. LOL!! I had to stop doing that with Shelby for a while because like Cowboy she ignored anything I said to her when my ex-husband was home. Irk!!

As an obedience (ex-obedience) trainer I can tell you that if you tell Cowboy to do anything don't say it more than once. For instance - when your husband is home:

You tell Cowboy to sit and Cowboy looks at you with that 'go to hell' face...you march right over to Cowboy and put him in a sit. Same with down, same with come...any command. The more times you say something the more the dog is getting away with ignoring you.

Try this when your hubby's home even if you don't want Cowboy to sit. Just to start showing your dominance.

I can only imagine it's tough for you with a baby to watch after too but in the long run I'm sure it'll be worth it.

Here's an off topic question for you AJ...

Do you notice a difference in Cowboy's attitude when your husband is in uniform?? I work for the police department and whenever any of the guys come over in uniform Duke has an absolute fit. When the same guys come over out of uniform he's ok. I haven't noticed a difference, however, whether I'm in uniform or not.

Feel free to email me privately if you feel like it.