TwoDogs
Boxer Insane
This sounded a little hyper-vigilant to me too.
Advice Needed - Issue with Our Boxer Girl
- Thread starter Ileana
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This sounded a little hyper-vigilant to me too.
Ileana
Boxer Booster
TwoDogs, I think you're spot on - very helpful inputs... We had a growl free day today. We didn't allow any excessive petting. We actually allowed omly one person to pet her, while she was bravely standing with her front paws on her daddy's legs, while he was seated at a restaurant table (we're on vacation). From Daddy's lap she bravely endured the petting, until I put my hand between her and the person; the human backed away, and Gracie settled with her head on her dad's leg.
We also had a blast allowing some hugs to happen. She does use these hugs to ask for stuff... so you were right again with the behavior inherited from wolf pups asking the adults to regurgitate some goodies. Thank you for all this info.
I wonder if she'll ever grow up to be fearless and composed...
As for the hyper vigilance... where did that come from and how do you all suggest I help her with that? We are a simple household, two adults and a dog, no kids, no neighbors, no relatives, no loud music, nothing extreme of any kind. Hubby works from home, so no separation anxiety either. She must have been somehow genetically predisposed to this type of anxiety. Any ideas?
Very much appreciated!
We also had a blast allowing some hugs to happen. She does use these hugs to ask for stuff... so you were right again with the behavior inherited from wolf pups asking the adults to regurgitate some goodies. Thank you for all this info.
I wonder if she'll ever grow up to be fearless and composed...
As for the hyper vigilance... where did that come from and how do you all suggest I help her with that? We are a simple household, two adults and a dog, no kids, no neighbors, no relatives, no loud music, nothing extreme of any kind. Hubby works from home, so no separation anxiety either. She must have been somehow genetically predisposed to this type of anxiety. Any ideas?
Very much appreciated!
ouesi
Boxer Booster
Nope, not dominant behavior at all. This is a puppy yes? This is her looking for reassurance from you. Our great dane pup used to jump up on me whenever she was feeling insecure or unsure. Its a gesture asking for reassurance - with the nibbling especially. NOT dominance at all. (And it irks me to no end when people interpret it as such, because treating it as dominance and punishing the dog for the behavior is completely counter productive to creating a stable dog in the long term.)
Obviously I can't have a great dane jumping on me anytime she needs mama reassurance, so I would watch her body language closely and when she needed it, offered support BEFORE she had to jump on me to get it. Now at 2 and a half years old, she just leans on me or shoves her head in my armpit LOL.
The dominance paradigm doesn't really apply to domestic dogs and how they relate to their humans (actually it doesn't often apply to how domestic dogs relate to each other either). If you google "debunking dominance" there are some great articles that explain why the dominance theory is bunk. The man who coined the term "alpha wolf", David Mech, has even recanted
Ileana
Boxer Booster
Thank you, Ouesi, very helpful. It feels really good to see others dismantle the dominance theory I have been served repeatedly since I've been trying to fix my pup's issue. Yes, she's a pup, 9 months old now, and has been displaying this behavior since she was 4 mo.
I felt like the worst pup mother in the world turning my back at her when she would come for the hugs (aka bneed my help with something.) In the past two days I've let it happen and watched - she does that when she's needy - food, water, rest, cold, etc.
Your input is much appreciated!
I felt like the worst pup mother in the world turning my back at her when she would come for the hugs (aka bneed my help with something.) In the past two days I've let it happen and watched - she does that when she's needy - food, water, rest, cold, etc.
Your input is much appreciated!
ouesi
Boxer Booster
From what I've seen, its seems that many boxers are pushy, in your face kind of dogs, but this does not mean they are dominant. They're just rude
Our boxer mix is really obnoxious this way, like if we're training and he gets frustrated with something, he will jump up on me, paw thump or nose bump me. Instead of punishing this behavior, I channel it. Nose bumps turn in to "touch", paw thumps turn in to "target", and his obnoxious in your face stuff makes for a lovely "front". By not punishing his rudeness and giving him something acceptable to do instead, we maintain the same intensity and focus, which is a good thing!
Our boxer mix is really obnoxious this way, like if we're training and he gets frustrated with something, he will jump up on me, paw thump or nose bump me. Instead of punishing this behavior, I channel it. Nose bumps turn in to "touch", paw thumps turn in to "target", and his obnoxious in your face stuff makes for a lovely "front". By not punishing his rudeness and giving him something acceptable to do instead, we maintain the same intensity and focus, which is a good thing!
Snowdogg
Boxer Booster
Ileana, you are describing our 5 year old to a tee!
Raleigh is a big boy, 103 pounds (and such a handsome boy if I say so myself he gets so much attention when we are out walking..."Is that a full Boxer?.." etc, people walk right up and touch him, at first he seems ok, they'll be petting him and some will try and rough house with him, then all of a sudden he'll start growling and they back away like he's the most vicious dog they've ever seen, I now dread anyone asking to pet him.
The anwers here are so interesting and make complete sense, now I get it! so pleased I found this thread, what a huge help.
All the best.
Raleigh, 5 year old Brindle wild boy xx
Morrissey and Brooster, Fawn males, 11 years old, at the bridge, always in our hearts xxxx
Raleigh is a big boy, 103 pounds (and such a handsome boy if I say so myself
he gets so much attention when we are out walking..."Is that a full Boxer?.." etc, people walk right up and touch him, at first he seems ok, they'll be petting him and some will try and rough house with him, then all of a sudden he'll start growling and they back away like he's the most vicious dog they've ever seen, I now dread anyone asking to pet him.The anwers here are so interesting and make complete sense, now I get it! so pleased I found this thread, what a huge help.
All the best.
Raleigh, 5 year old Brindle wild boy xx
Morrissey and Brooster, Fawn males, 11 years old, at the bridge, always in our hearts xxxx
TwoDogs
Boxer Insane
That is so awesome that you had a wonderful (and growl-free day)! I am so happy for you and for Gracie too.
As for the hyper-vigilance, yes, some of it could be genetic. Studies have shown that when pups from 2 different litters--some from a stable, confident mother and some from a nervous, shy mother--were switched, that the pups from the shy mother raised by the stable mother were still shy as adults. Interestingly, the pups from the stable mother that were raised by the shy mother also exhibited more shyness as adults. The study shows that temperment is part genetic, but is also influenced by environment. It is that last bit--influenced by environment--that means that we, to a certain extent, are able to mold and shape our pups into as stable and confident dogs as much as their genetics allows.
If pups have been consistently exposed to stuff during the socialization period from about 3 weeks old (when their eyes and ears open) to about 16 weeks and have had pleasant experiences (or at the very least neutral experiences) with it, they are going to view it as "normal" and therefore in the "safe" category. The trouble hits when pups have led an early life without a lot of socialization experiences to people, things, dogs, and different environments. If you then pair a genetically nervous pup with not a lot of socialization experiences, you have a recipe for a nervous, fearful, shy, and/or fear-aggressive adult dog.
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johann
Boxer Insane
Good work.
Another thought on the hugs- Johann will jump up on me if he's overwhelmed or nervous, especially when we're in a busy place. It's gotten a lot better and less frequent as he's gotten older and more confident.
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I am so glad that I found this thread.....it is exactly what I am going throught with my 6 month old boy. We just saw a behavioralist last week! I think that it was very beneficial. If you have one in your area, I highly recommend it. Your story sounds like a mirror image of my boy! Hope things start to improve for you, and congrats on your growl free day!
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