Advice for 2 female household

[MyaandLaney]

Hi, i have two female rescues. both since puppyhood and both are spayed. Mya is 2 and a half and very submissive, and laney is 5 months. They came from kill shelters so i didn't have the luxury of picking sex.
they get along great now, they play all the time. I was just wondering if anyone had any tips that i could start with now to make sure they don't get in serious fights when they are both mature.

thank you
Adam

 

[SumCoco]

I would love to read tips too. I just rehomed a girl, 1 1/2 years (very submissive) and the other will be 5 months in a few short days. They are completely in love right now and I want to keep it that way! I met a lady at the dog park with 2 females and also found some online, they all say they have never had problems and all of them are of mature age.

 

[milfordks]

Many people have had 2 female dogs at the same time and never had problems with them.
Unfortunately, as with many things, people dwell on the negative (in this case, 2 females together)which gets more attention. I'm not an expert trainer and don't have any statistics to show, but I would be willing to bet that the percent of 2 female dog owners that have problems is on the really low side but those few instances gets much more publicity (similar to how the extremely small percentage of dog bites that are by pitbulls, but yet they get most of the attention and therefore the bad reputation).

 

[LILYLARUE]

Many people have had 2 female dogs at the same time and never had problems with them.
Unfortunately, as with many things, people dwell on the negative (in this case, 2 females together)which gets more attention. I'm not an expert trainer and don't have any statistics to show, but I would be willing to bet that the percent of 2 female dog owners that have problems is on the really low side but those few instances gets much more publicity (similar to how the extremely small percentage of dog bites that are by pitbulls, but yet they get most of the attention and therefore the bad reputation).

The female/female aggression is NOT A MYTH! The percentages are much higher than you state. Yes, often females will get along......for the most part. I think tolerate with dominance behaviors towards a submissive is more like it.

Females, especially the bully breeds, often do fight. It may not happen right away. They may seem like the bestest of friends. But typically, a fight does break out. And when two females fight, they fight to the death. This is how it is in the wild pack. There is ONE Alpha Female and ONE Alpha male in a pack. These are the only two who will mate while they keep their status. Often, the alpha female will chase off her female offspring or even kill off her females. Some submissive females that are no threat will be able to remain, but is often bullied by the alpha female. When that sub fem becomes adult and into heat, that will create a disturbance within the pack. The alpha will try to remove that bitch however possible. The males belong to the Alpha and those are the only ones that will breed with her. Those that are chased off, have to search for their own loner dogs to form a pack, or fight another female for the status of Alpha within that pack. Most packs are made up of inner-bred dogs......The mom is the same for first litters to grand litters. Eventually that Alpha will either get old, mature out of heat, or be killed by a very assertive female from her litter.

Now, there are other female breeds that can absolutley live in harmony with other females. These breeds are not structured around the "Wild pack - Alpha female" mentality. Take for instance border collies, this breed was bred to work, and to work in pairs or packs. So, to better their chances of survival, they NEED to have a pack that is accepting of each other. Bully breeds have not been bred or raised to work in pairs or packs. They often "work" alone. They hunt alone. They survive singly. So, the NEED for partnerships are not necessary, if at all, they are a liability to the survival of self.

I would NEVER suggest a female bully household take on another female bully. In fact, there are rescues who will NEVER, no matter what, place a female into another female home, even if the other dog is not a bully breed. There are reasons for this. And I absolutely agree with it. Having had two females, and they were the bestest of friends, after two years and both into adulthood, there was a fight. And it was the submissive bully that attacked my submissive male and alpha fem boxer. Just last month, I had to break a nasty, blood bath of a fight between a 9 yr old mom and her 4 yr old daughter am bulldogs. Mother was fixed, daughter was not. Mother was absolutely the Alpha fem in a household of two fixed males, one a son and the other a mini-doxie. No warning. Both fems were besties. Then all of a sudden, bam! Lock and loaded!

If there were few issues with fem/fem bully households.....the stories wouldn't be told. To have so many stories of heartaches and trauma, crate & rotates, there has to be truth to the fem/fem aggression. These are not stories to cause a rukus in the dog world. There is nothing to be gained. Like banning pitbulls, will gain the eradication of the breed....therefore, the stories of hype are pushed to gain the goal. There is no goal other than education and awareness in fem/fem aggression.

The truth is....when bringing in a female into a female home, there is ALWAYS THE POTENTIAL OF A FIGHT! More so than two males, or male/females. This can never be forgotten, always a thought it could happen, and best in a confident home. There are some who have had two female boxers in their homes. And I love to hear those stories....because I hear the opposite about 75% more often than the good ones. It's just a risk that the owner should be prepared to take and prepared to crate-seperate-rotate for life. I personally do not feel that this is an ideal situation, as neither dog will get 100% of the attention, always keeping one dog out of the family mix. But some do what they can and do ok with the rotating. I just could not do it, with such a small house or sitting there knowing one is not welcome at that moment.

 

[TwoDogs]

I've got alot of dog friends and alot of trainer friends--people who have multiple dogs, compete with their dogs, and train others to do the same. These are people who really know dogs, dog behavior, dog social heirarchies and the dynamics of them. With the exception of a select few, they all have either only males, male/female pairs, or multiple males with a single female. It's pretty obvious there is a reason.

 

[MyaandLaney]

vet-trainer advice

I have two family friends that are vets. I spoke with both of them, and the dog trainer that consults for one of the vets.
They're advice was all the same. They said it can happen, though it is a minority that it isn't considered rare.
Their advice for success was keep the dogs food bowls in seperate areas, never leave them alone together unsupervised, and be a very strong leader so they know who's boss. Just thought i woud post for what it is worth.

 

[milfordks]

The female/female aggression is NOT A MYTH! The percentages are much higher than you state. Yes, often females will get along......for the most part. I think tolerate with dominance behaviors towards a submissive is more like it.

Females, especially the bully breeds, often do fight. It may not happen right away. They may seem like the bestest of friends. But typically, a fight does break out. And when two females fight, they fight to the death. This is how it is in the wild pack. There is ONE Alpha Female and ONE Alpha male in a pack. These are the only two who will mate while they keep their status. Often, the alpha female will chase off her female offspring or even kill off her females. Some submissive females that are no threat will be able to remain, but is often bullied by the alpha female. When that sub fem becomes adult and into heat, that will create a disturbance within the pack. The alpha will try to remove that bitch however possible. The males belong to the Alpha and those are the only ones that will breed with her. Those that are chased off, have to search for their own loner dogs to form a pack, or fight another female for the status of Alpha within that pack. Most packs are made up of inner-bred dogs......The mom is the same for first litters to grand litters. Eventually that Alpha will either get old, mature out of heat, or be killed by a very assertive female from her litter.

Now, there are other female breeds that can absolutley live in harmony with other females. These breeds are not structured around the "Wild pack - Alpha female" mentality. Take for instance border collies, this breed was bred to work, and to work in pairs or packs. So, to better their chances of survival, they NEED to have a pack that is accepting of each other. Bully breeds have not been bred or raised to work in pairs or packs. They often "work" alone. They hunt alone. They survive singly. So, the NEED for partnerships are not necessary, if at all, they are a liability to the survival of self.

I would NEVER suggest a female bully household take on another female bully. In fact, there are rescues who will NEVER, no matter what, place a female into another female home, even if the other dog is not a bully breed. There are reasons for this. And I absolutely agree with it. Having had two females, and they were the bestest of friends, after two years and both into adulthood, there was a fight. And it was the submissive bully that attacked my submissive male and alpha fem boxer. Just last month, I had to break a nasty, blood bath of a fight between a 9 yr old mom and her 4 yr old daughter am bulldogs. Mother was fixed, daughter was not. Mother was absolutely the Alpha fem in a household of two fixed males, one a son and the other a mini-doxie. No warning. Both fems were besties. Then all of a sudden, bam! Lock and loaded!

If there were few issues with fem/fem bully households.....the stories wouldn't be told. To have so many stories of heartaches and trauma, crate & rotates, there has to be truth to the fem/fem aggression. These are not stories to cause a rukus in the dog world. There is nothing to be gained. Like banning pitbulls, will gain the eradication of the breed....therefore, the stories of hype are pushed to gain the goal. There is no goal other than education and awareness in fem/fem aggression.

The truth is....when bringing in a female into a female home, there is ALWAYS THE POTENTIAL OF A FIGHT! More so than two males, or male/females. This can never be forgotten, always a thought it could happen, and best in a confident home. There are some who have had two female boxers in their homes. And I love to hear those stories....because I hear the opposite about 75% more often than the good ones. It's just a risk that the owner should be prepared to take and prepared to crate-seperate-rotate for life. I personally do not feel that this is an ideal situation, as neither dog will get 100% of the attention, always keeping one dog out of the family mix. But some do what they can and do ok with the rotating. I just could not do it, with such a small house or sitting there knowing one is not welcome at that moment.

Is the long drawn out article supposed to be impressive? I've been around dogs for most of my life and including all the people I've know who've owned dogs throughout those years and never had any problems with multiple females in the same household. Does that mean there could never be problems? No, never said that. If your long explanation was completely true, that would mean there's never any more than one female allowed in any pack (including wild animal packs such as wolves and wild dogs). Hmmm, those packs survive with multiple males and females. Yes, there is an alpha male and sometimes an alpha female and a fight can break out if another alpha challenges them. Very rare to have an alpha male and an alpha female in the same pack, because only one will truely be the alpha. Responsible dog owners let their dogs know that the person is the alpha and they'll respect that as long as you continue to let them know you're in charge. I suppose all those breaders with multiple females have problems too? Knowing many breeders of different breeds, they've never had (or very rarely) have problems. No more so than 2 males together. I'm aware that sometimes people have 2 alpha females who'll fight (same as 2 alpha males), I was just trying to say those incidences are rare, yet they get more notice than the majority of multiple female owners who have no problems.

 

[LILYLARUE]

Well, no need to be rude. I was sharing my education and experience. If you don't agree, fine. Your experiences are different. But I did need to correct the misconceptions of your post. What if the OP isn't an experienced dog owner? What if the OP isn't up to current training techniques? What if the OP just isn't a "pack leader"? All sides must be put out there so the OP can make an educated decision on what is best for them. If the risk of fighting between bitches is a potential risk, then avoid it. Plain and simple.

This forum is for education and sharing experiences. I did not condemn your post, I replied with the other side of the coin if you will.

And in the wild packs, yes, there are several females. Because we do not have the actual studies of wild packs, only human created packs, the studies are not factual or complete. There are on-going studies now as we speak, of wild packs that are being studied and documented.

I am not a know-it-all, but I have spent several years in seminars, training, bully studies, and applied conditioning. What I do know, I share. What I don't know, I ask.

Please don't take posts here so personally and don't be so brash! It really isn't necessary.

 

[LILYLARUE]

Your dog friends are probably very experienced and can keep peace within the pack. But how many of them have bully females hanging around each other? Do they seperate once in heat? What is the dynamics of those "packs" of breeder dogs? Are they crated and seperated at all? How many alpha females do they have in their packs? How many bitches do they have at one time? Lots of questions needed to asses their success rate at multiple-female packs.

I'd surely be interested in hearing just how they handle bully females hanging around each other. Maybe they should write a book to educate us who are "misinformed" on just how to handle two female bullys and how to maintain the roles of the pack. Which always change with time and postions change regularly.

 

[Jan]

Is the long drawn out article supposed to be impressive? I've been around dogs for most of my life and including all the people I've know who've owned dogs throughout those years and never had any problems with multiple females in the same household. Does that mean there could never be problems? No, never said that. If your long explanation was completely true, that would mean there's never any more than one female allowed in any pack (including wild animal packs such as wolves and wild dogs). Hmmm, those packs survive with multiple males and females. Yes, there is an alpha male and sometimes an alpha female and a fight can break out if another alpha challenges them. Very rare to have an alpha male and an alpha female in the same pack, because only one will truely be the alpha. Responsible dog owners let their dogs know that the person is the alpha and they'll respect that as long as you continue to let them know you're in charge. I suppose all those breaders with multiple females have problems too? Knowing many breeders of different breeds, they've never had (or very rarely) have problems. No more so than 2 males together. I'm aware that sometimes people have 2 alpha females who'll fight (same as 2 alpha males), I was just trying to say those incidences are rare, yet they get more notice than the majority of multiple female owners who have no problems.

There is no need to be insulting. If you can't keep your posts civilized, don't post at all.