Absolutely Horrified! (long vent, sorry)

[ladyluck_t]

I am so horrified and mad that i could chew nails and spit bullets about what happened last night. The boxer rescue that i am a part of paid for me to take my current foster to training class because he is a little reckless and aggressive in play. So, here i go trotting off to training, so very happy that Jack, my foster, is going to get some much needed attention and socialization in a very controled environment. He is a wiz at the basic commands and for the most part behaves fairly well. I was also told the instructor of the class is experienced with aggressive dogs, so i think win-win. Now Jack needs to wear a muzzle for safety sake when around other animals since he is a little aggresive, this is what we are working on with him. His muzzle is wide enough that he can eat and drink comfortably but not take a bite out of anyone. (or a serious bite anyhow) so i walk in the facility and the very first thing they do is place a more restrictive muzzle on him, SO i am thinking, "ok fine, lawsuits, i understand" then they place a "choke chain" on him, and i am thinking "uhhh, what is this???" The class starts and this person (and i use that word generously here) is training using the "jerk on the chain method" , I am HORRIFIED! and stunned, i start thinking, ok, a little anitquated, but it has been a valid training method for a long time, IF APPLIED PROPERLY! but she never talked about exactly how to apply the method, they kept trying to get me to hold the leash in a very uncomfortable manner for me, forced me to put Jack on the left of me, when i am used to having him on the right, then they take Jack to show how to train "heel" and every time she jerks the collar he starts wigging out, i am now starting to get really MAD :mad: Then i face a real quandry, i didnt pay for the class, cause if i had, i would have been OUT of there the first time she jerked my dog!!!! they even reduced their rates (1/2 price) for our rescue. then to top everything off, at the end of the class the instructor (another lose term) answered questions, one lady asked about how to stop barking, and the VERY FIRST Thing this woman said was "shock collar" and then someone asked about jumping over fences and on windows again the first thing she responded with was "electric fence" I just was so very mad, horrified and shaking cause i was trying to be polite. i ABSOLUTELY categorically refuse to treat any animal like this, how in the world can you train anything to behave or follow rules using fear and pain. and especially with dogs that are aggressive and may have been abused! doesnt this acerbate the issues?? so what do i do? i dont want to come off sounding like a zealot when i tell the rescue that I REFUSE to take jack to this training and REFUSE to train him this way. Any ideas especially those of you in rescues? I don't want to ruin my relationship with the rescue's but this is morally wrong!
i really wish Tulsa-Dan lived in ABQ
wanna move dan??? i'd help ya!!!
Thanks for listening!

 

[Tricia77]

Find another rescue! You cant support a rescue that supports violence against animals!
Its incredible, isnt it, that in the 21 century we intelligent :rolleyes: humans cannot think of a better way then brute force??
:mad:

 

[Cami]

WOW! I would have been mortified. Don't these so called "experts" get out much? That way of thinking/training is certainly losing ground to more productive measures. They are not training they are forcing actions by negativity.

I know that you feel as if you are backed up against a wall but surely there must be other more qualified trainers that would be willing to help out the rescue? Even just mentioning to them that you would recommend them to the new adoptive owners should be a start in the right direction.

I, like you would personally refuse to return, and let the others from the rescue know why. They may not even be aware that this is going on. OR you might just have to try and educate them about far better options of training.

Poor Jack, 2 wrongs don't make a right. I am glad that he has you for his fostering advocate!

Good-Luck

 

[rog1006]

I would just tell the rescue that you are uncomfortable with the type of training they are recommending for your foster. If someone in our rescue told me they were uncomfortable with our trainer I would gladly agree and look for another one in the area. Most have more than one trainer anyway. Now if they freak out and start being rude, then I would consider finding another rescue to volunteer with. Most often, just talking through things like this with a board member is the easiest and quickest way to get something resolved. Maybe they don't know about the specifics of the training? I certainly wouldn't lose a FOSTER home over something like that!! GOOD LUCK and keep us posted!

(Just as a side note, in the classes I've taken, the dog always goes on the left side.)

 

[Laurie_Duke]

In any way would this class and there actions improve Jack ?? This in my opinion would make him more aggressive, trust is the path to a happy foster and potentialy a adoptable dog. I really feel for him right now....it was probally so stressfull for him....sorry nothing against yourself, but I would have left way before you did....I could not stand there and watch this...plus I would have spoken up with the other methods of her training !!!!

The best of luck to you and Jack


Laurie

 

[ladyluck_t]

Update

I talked with my contact at the boxer rescue, and he was as horrified as i was. he aggreed this was the absolute worst way to train Jack. I told him i was not going back and he said that was what he would do. I also said i would be willing to go ask for a refund since i am the one who wont go, and he said not to worry about it. He also bought a copy of culture clash and is bringing it to me this weekend. i feel so much better. i didnt want to ruin my association with this group, they really are great people. I told him that i represented the boxer rescue well and restrained my "irish temper" I think that is what caused me the most trouble....goodness i have ALOT of irish in me! :D Thanks all for your support! I just wanted to make sure i wasnt being a zealot!! i tend to drive everyone here at work crazy with all my "dog" talk! little do they know that i am toning it down :D

Thanks Again!

 

[Laurie_Duke]

appiconappiconappiconappiconappiconappicon

We knew you would do the right thing all along !!!! Keep us posted on Jacks progress.....and I hope he know how lucky (irish lucky) he is to have you by his side ??

Laurie

 

[Nemeia]

I got mad just reading it!!!
I admitt, I use the pinch collar on Max, but I don't pull on it to choke him! It's there more for the way he acts when he has it on. He's a lot calmer with the pinch collar than he is with a normal one. He's used to wearing the normal one when he's in the park, leash free and playing... So when i put it on him to walk him, he thinks it's time to get loose and pull in every direction. Still I would never pull him with enough force to hurt him, or use any of the "electric" anything on him!

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

I got mad just reading it!!!
I admitt, I use the pinch collar on Max, but I don't pull on it to choke him! It's there more for the way he acts when he has it on. He's a lot calmer with the pinch collar than he is with a normal one. He's used to wearing the normal one when he's in the park, leash free and playing... So when i put it on him to walk him, he thinks it's time to get loose and pull in every direction. Still I would never pull him with enough force to hurt him, or use any of the "electric" anything on him!

------------------------

so, do you think you've "trained" your dog with a pinch collar or has the COLLAR trained your dog. He only behaves when he has this horrid collar on so to me, the collar did the "training" (or restricting and adverse repurcussions) and you have done nothing but take the easy way out. I have trained thousands of dogs and have NEVER had to use a chain collar, pinch collar or elecontronic device to achieve what is needed from ANY dog, even the most aggressive (which is of course the worst thing you can do - meet aggression with agression -- as it only exacerbates the problem and doesn't resolve it or train the dog what TO DO.

---------------------

As for the training class, I'm glad you spoke to the rescue group and they agreed with you. That is absolutely horrid and I would have been in someone's face about that the moment they put the choke chain on my or any dog. If they can't do some research and keep up with the times in terms of training, they have no business in the dog training business, IMO.

These are the kinds of dogs I have to work with who have the WORST behavioral problems. People who have taken their poor dogs to jerk-n-pull classes and then get them home and the trouble becomes ten-fold. It saddens me to no end and takes a LOT of time and love and effort and work to rehabilitate these dogs from the abuse (and yes, it is ABUSE) they have been subjected to.

-----------------

I'd love to move to NM, but not ABQ. Been there and wasn't my favorite city. I almost left NY to move to Taos or Santa Fe or Scottsdale. Those cities are my kind of cities in a wonderful state such as NM. Taos especially and Santa Fe. But alas, they are all very expensive cities in which to live and being a dog trainer (we don't make a lot of money) and retired on a fixed income doesn't allow me to live the life or Riley just any old where I want. But I sure do love NM and would enjoy nothing more than to live there. Maybe someday. . . . .


Dan

 

[Zannie]

as i was reading your story i had to look up to see if you lived in my town its the same thimg that happend to madie except she ended up at the vet becouse of it ...find someone else i'm sure the rescue will understand.....
ann