A online breeder has breed a white boxer, should I get one of the offspring?

[kwkelsey]

This will be a long post, but please bear with me...

Well, I am in the market for a new boxer. My last boxer just passed away a few weeks ago. Duke had a very long life of 12 years and lived it to its fullest. I am ok with his passing as he was in excellent health up until the very sudden end. He will be missed.

I found a beautiful dark brindle boxer online and have spoken to the owners. They sent me pictures of the Sire and Dam. Turns out that the mother has 'champion bloodlines' and shes a white boxer! Now I didn’t know anything about white boxers until I found this website and have read the stickys. Ironically, before I read about the problems with the white boxer's deafness, akc registration and breeding issues, the seller said that he didn’t want to supply a health guarantee. I then notice in the pictures they sent me of the puppy that she has blue eyes.

Is it normal for a boxer puppy to have blue / grayish eyes? Do blue eyes mean deafness? If the boxer is 8 weeks old and isn’t deaf, does that mean we are clear? Should I buy this boxer if I can get him to honor a health guarantee?

Now a lot has changed over the last 12 years since I last searched for a boxer.
I can tell you the last week has been very eye opening and frustrating to say the least. If one wants a proven healthy boxer, one has to go to a professional breeder that actually can provide health tests and pedigree papers. Unfortunately, that also means paying $1200+ for a boxer as a pet. All you read are posts and websites from boxer lovers and professional breeders telling people not to support the 'backyard' breeders yet the professional breeders are all charging thousands for boxers, and in my opinion, losing sight of the average family's needs and wants of a family pet and increasing the profits of these backyard breeders. Not everyone wants to show a dog. In my opinion, the prices the professional breeders are charging are in fact helping further the backyard breeders by charging these amazing fees just for a healthy boxer. Now let there be no mistake, I am well aware of the costs and time involved in creating a champion and the costs involved in all the testing that is done but $1200-$2000 for a boxer is above and beyond. IMO, It is that high simply due to supply and demand and not solely to recoup the costs of making sure we are only breeding proven healthy boxers. Just because you can do it doesn’t mean you should. So now it seems that if you want a proven healthy boxer, you have to be rich and in the right cliques. I never thought I would see the day only a select few rich people are now the only people that can afford a healthy dog! I apologize but I am very frustrated and truly saddened that I may not be able to get a boxer. Please help me understand and any suggestions that you may have are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

 

[dlcenters]

I feel your pain

I just said the same thing the other day...right or wrong, there will always be a market for backyard breeders due to the cost of a "good" puppy. Most average income families do not have the disposable income to pay the outrageous prices wanted for "good" dogs so they will get what they can afford no matter where it comes from. We too are looking for a new boxer-wish I could get a "good" one, but we can't afford it so we will adopt from a shelter or rescue as we always have. Even then you have the same potential health problems as you would from a backyard breeder, but I feel I am providing a safe and sound home for a dog in need through no fault of it's own. Good luck with your search...

 

[gmacleod]

OR, you might look at it another way and say what has society come to when the "I want it now" mentality has taken over to the point that we all feel entitled - as if it's a basic right - to have a dog at a price we can afford. When the reality is that we can't (or won't) afford it, and to get it cheaper means that the dogs and the breed as a whole have to suffer to supply us with our cheap "affordable" puppies.

It's not like you're buying some plastic commodity where the only difference is the quality or durability of the plastic.

What you're suggesting is - quite frankly - amoral. And that's the nicest way I can think of to put it.

Since you can't (or won't) afford to buy a dog that has been responsibly bred - you're proposing to buy one that has been produced in circumstances that will *certainly* be to the detriment of the breed - you're talking about the deliberate breeding INTO a dog breed a serious genetic problem. If you've actually got so far as knowing that white boxers are more at risk of being deaf than normally pigmented dogs, without finding out why, then this thread is a good one for starting to understand why what you're suggesting (buying form some irresponsible, money grubbing fool) is so abhorrent: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34760

You might also consider that it is precisely because of irresponsible breeding practices like that that responsibly bred dogs cost what they do - because people have a load of testing to do to try to irradicate genetic diseases, and repair the damage done. There is bugger all point in bitching about the cost when you're about to contribute directly and financially to the reason for it.

...right or wrong, there will always be a market for backyard breeders due to the cost of a "good" puppy.

There will as long as people like you continue to try to justify it.

If you truely cannot afford to buy an ethically, responsibly produced dog, there are 3-4 million of them euthanised in shelters in the US every single year - for those who can't afford to buy a "new" one, how about saving one that's "slightly used" (and will otherwise be destroyed)?

If a few more buyers were prepared to accept their share of responsibility in the transaction (yes, it IS a two way street) then there would be a few less experiences like these ones: http://www.boxerworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76541

To the OP and your actual question: no you should NOT buy a dog from this backyard breeder.

And as you can probably guess already, I don't buy the "...truly saddened that I may not be able to get a boxer" bit. Frustrated and saddened that you can't get a cute baby puppy for $5.99, certainly. But you're as capable as the next person of either saving up until you can afford one (whites in particular are not that expensive) OR going out and saving a life by adopting one. In neither case will you get one tomorrow - but when its a living, breathing being we're talking about, the "I want it right now" mentality really has no place.

 

[OilSands Mom]

Wow

To the original OP, you my dear have some guts! No smart but guts none the less. I have 2 boxers as gmacleod described above. One adopted at 14 months, the other at 4 years. Please check your local recues. There are so many dogs out there that deserve a forever home.

As far as BYB, I can only offer my own history. They feed on the " I want it now" mentality. My kids decided they wanted a beagle years ago. We got the pup at 8 weeks, didn't ask too many questions. At about 1 year, neither my husband or I could enter the room where our daughter slept without him growling and posturing. it turns out his "parents can be seen on site" were actually SIBLINGS! Nothing but a money maker for fools like me.

Wait to get the right pup that has the proper health testing and show history or like I said earlier, contact a local rescue. I know I have 2 boys that, although they were not both here as pups, could not be happier in their families lives!

 

[djheitz]

Now that I have picked my jaw back up off the floor....The whole point of doing research to find a reputable breeder who does all the health testing is to better your odds of raising a healthy puppy - thus saving thousands of dollars in vet bills over the life of the dog. If you can't afford a breeder's fees now, what will you do when your dog requires a costly surgery (we paid $2500 for ACL two years ago). If cost is that much of an issue for you, perhaps you should rethink pet ownership.

Based on the post that started this thread, I'm not all that sure a decent rescue would approve an adoption.

 

[Cami]

My dog is from a BYB. I love her like no tomorrow and wouldn't give her up for anything in the world BUT......

I have since learned that my choice was wrong. THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS and six years later that $600 I spent when she was a pup doesn't seem like such a good bargain.

Her parents were not health tested but she has great bloodlines (prior to parents). She has literally been sick with something since the day she came home with us. Some things were not terribly serious and yet other things she suffers from are life threatening. Since you are not dealing with any emotional attachment YET I would RUN, not walk from this BYB.

 

[raisingboys]

I just wanted to say that I feel your pain about losing your pup after 12 years. It is tough. It sounds like part of you knows what everyone was going to say ahead of time. When you know better, you do better. We also purchased our Boxer from a BYB, 12 years ago. She was in great health up until she had to be put to sleep because of cancer. We were lucky, I know.

By your post, it sounds like you really are toying with going with this breeder. You have heard some great advice already about what you should do, but I am not sure that you will be satisfied with everyone else's reasons to RUN from this breeder. If you do not trust their instincts, try to trust YOUR OWN.

Go armed to this breeder with a huge list of questions. You know the standard: Why did you breed this litter? Why don't you believe in health testing? What problems have your past litters had? ETC.. When you get the answers, then try to make the right choice.

The more information you know, the better prepared you will be.

Personally, now I know how important it is to go to a PROFESSIONAL breeder. Yes, we are paying 1000 in four weeks for our little fawn girl, but It will be worth it. We researched breeders for MONTHS. The investment we put into it NOW,WILL pay off in the future.

You and I sound like we were fortunate that our BYB pups didn't have trouble, but who is to say the next puppy we bring home wont have trouble?

Also, you mention they are offering a health guarantee..what exactly is it and for how long? Guarantee against what?

As far as "CHAMPION LINES" what exactly does that mean? Different people feel differently about this. This term gets thrown around a lot, I see now in the 12 years that I have owned our Boxer.

Just please take your time, and do what you feel in your mind is right. Sometimes, our hearts leap into something without taking time.

Good luck and I hope you do try be patient. The right puppy is out there and you will know it when you find it. There will be NO hesitation what so ever in your thought and choice.

 

[memoryofbart]

My very first boxer was almost 21 years ago and he was from a BYB for only $50.00. He was the best health wise and level headed dog I ever ever had. Needless to say I was 17 to 18 years old at the time, as I have matured and grown as a women I have made the decision to rescue. What a lot of people don't admit or maybe don't know is that with a BYB it is really hit and miss and when we rescue 90% of the time these are boxers from BYB.

Just my 2 cents.

I say do what you feel is right in your heart. We are all just here to offer our advice.

Good Luck to you and sorry about your loss.

Christin

 

[gmacleod]

What a lot of people don't admit or maybe don't know is that with a BYB it is really hit and miss and when we rescue 90% of the time these are boxers from BYB.

I think that the vast majority of people are fully aware of that (its no surprise either - few BYBs vet anything other than the ability of new owners to hand over the cash).

The difference between rescuing and lining the pockets of an irresponsible breeder is financial. When you rescue, you don't give one red cent to those "breeders" - anything you pay goes toward rescuing another of their cast offs. When you pay them for their services, however, you contribute directly with your financial support to their enterprise.

No matter what way you look at it, its the buyer who is ultimately king and who will decide the future of this breed. If you want irresponsible breeding and continued decline of the breed to continue - say it with cash and give your financial support to the BYBs. If you have any interest at all in reversing the decline of the breed, then give your financial support to those who're doing something about it (and if you can't, then give it to a rescue instead). That is the where the responsibility sits.

Incidentally, you might consider that if your chances of obtaining a healthy dog have declined since you bought one 12 or 21 years ago - there is a reason for that. And the reason is poor breeding practices. We are ALL now reaping what has been sown over the past 10-20 years. And we will reap in the future what is sown now. The inescapable reality is that if you buy a dog, you are supporting one or other outcome (recovery or continued decline), according to where you CHOOSE to put your financial support.

 

[EAO76]

I just wanted to add that while people seem to LOVE the idea of bringing home a sweet tiny puppy that stage of puppyhood is very short lived. When you purchase a puppy from a BYB you never know what you are going to get temperament-wise. Puppies take a long time to develop and mature before you see the true dog. However if you rescue an adult what you see is what you get. They have already grown into themselves. So while a rescue dog may have originally come from a BYB it’s far less of a gamble than purchasing directly from a BYB.

Additionally when you rescue you (usually) have a team of people who make an effort to get to know their dogs and get to know you (meet your family, your other pets, see where you live, ask questions about your lifestyle, etc) so that a proper match can be made. I have never seen a BYB that cares if the buyer is a good “fit” for a particular dog. Furthermore if you rescue & it doesn’t work out most rescue organizations will take the dog back. BYB’s don’t usually offer/ require that.

So in my opinion rescuing is a great alternative if you cannot afford a reputable breeder (or don’t want to wait). And the rescues do occasionally get puppies too!