3 yr old male needs good home.

[DixieDiana]

This is just a thought.....do you have an upstairs and downstairs in your house?? If so, maybe you could keep one upstairs and one downstairs. We do that with our dogs. We have 4 boxer girls, the 2 adults are upstairs and the puppies are downstairs. Works well for us.

Also another thing we do....is...at times we have all of them either upstairs or downstairs. When we do that....we separate them by using baby gates. That way the adults can go in certain rooms and the puppies in others.

 

[T&R'sDad]

The wife would love to have a second story. It is only a single level home though.

I believe that we are going to try and keep him, she is again holding him and he is covered in tears. We have both taken the day off work and the vet opens in about an hour. So we will see what we can find out.

Here the four of us sit on the sofa like nothing was ever wrong.

Broken hearted,
Rusty

 

[jazzzman]

I'm a little surprised at a professional trainer looking to "break the alpha male syndrome." Pack order is the natural social order, however this apparently is not an alpha issue as it has continued.

There are several hard to diagnose health conditions that could create unwarranted aggression. Thyroid conditions are relatively common in boxers. If a brindle's coat is "mottled," or a fawn's coat seems "faded," a blood test can determine if there is a thyroid condition present. This can be treated with very inexpensive medicine.

Another possibility is a brain tumor; harder to diagnose.

I'm more concerned about the dog biting you. Rescue can not and will not accept a dog with a known bite history.

If you're serious about rehoming this dog, there is information on CIBR's web site: www.boxernest.net/os.html However, I would encourage you to inform any potential homes or shelters about the bite history. This dog has bitten you 4 times! If the dog bites someone else, you are liable.

Michael

 

[Claudia807]

There is a product called Direct Stop which is a citrus spray. I would pick up a canister of that to have on hand until you can figure out what to do or find a solution. (Direct Stop) At least that would help you to break up the fights (in theory, anyway).

Having fighting dogs in the house is a very tough situation and I know it produces a lot of stress. I can't really say whether there is anything that can be done to remedy the situation. It sounds like it's been going on for quite a while.

If there is a course of action that can be undertaken, I can tell you that it is probably going to be long and involved and will take a high level of commitment on your part. I attended a seminar on dog aggression last weekend and I purchased the book that the speaker has written (Dog Aggression by Brenda Aloff) and let me tell you this is a big, long book. It's a complex issue! I do think aggression within the home is harder to handle than aggression with external dogs. We recently had an unusual situation where we took a male owner-surrender who just flat-out did not get along with his littermate, who is female. We brought the dog into rescue and he was just wonderful with other dogs. He's in a new home now and is doing great. But for whatever reason, he really, really did not like his sister. Same-sex aggression is much more common.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide to do.

Claudia
Green Acres Boxer Rescue of WI

 

[Liz Phillips]

re 3yr old male needs good home

Gracious.. there are SO many issues here to try and help with and I apologize now if this gets long..:eek:

-first.. kudo's to you for getting some medical clearances.. but unfortunately, this type of fighting is not normally medically related. Please, please, please.. do NOT simply medicate this dog. The issues need to be addressed and not masked..

-second.. the 'behaviorist' that told you to 'break' the alpha-male syndrome is a moron (in my opinion). Remember, these are canines; pack behavior and dominance; leadership is a fact of life; whether you have 1 dog or multiples. Every being in your home has a place in the 'pack'.. the key is to get the DOGS to accept YOU as the alpha-male (& then your wife) and then we humans have to let the dogs adjust who comes AFTER the humans.. We can't interfere with it because all it does it keep the pack in an uproar.. by trying to alter nature, it just confuses the dogs and they lash out (as you have seen).

-third.. I normally encourage people to go back and work with their breeders on these types of issues.. but I caution you on that as I have to wonder about the 'breeder' in that they even allowed you to have two of the same sex/age/size.. Unfortunately, is this all to common and you are simply in the 75% of the families that have two same-sex littermates that can't co=habitate once they reached maturity. It happens ALL OF THE TIME and represents about 85% of the boxers we get owner-surrendered into rescue from caring families like yours. They love their dogs, but the dogs simply won't get along, and unfortunately once the fighting starts, it will never stop. And the sad thing is, especially with males, they will cuddle; sleep together etc, but something will continue to touch this off, and you will probably never know what it is. Females (on the other hand), NEVER forget, and once blood is drawn normally have to be kept physically apart the rest of their lifes.

-finally, I am not suggesting what course you take; but simply ask you to not loose site of the fact that for everyone to be happy, there must be harmony. We all love our dogs, but you are not doing anyone a favor by keeping an animal in your home based on emotion alone. Look at what is best for ALL involved logically. It is a hard thing to do, and as much as we hate to admit it, if any dog is placed in a home that loves it, feeds it, and plays with it, they soon forget their 'other' family. The grief is OURS ALONE.. Sure, they may be confused initially, but young dogs adjust and acclimate VERY quickly and within a week love their NEW family exclusively.. Its painful, but true. My rescue foster homes see it with EVERY dog they help place.. the boxer often times does not even look back when leaving with their new families...

I wish you the best of luck and hope that things can work out for you. But if you want to talk about it and what the options are, I will do what I can for you. Be assured, if you want to keep this dog in your home, we will offer resources to make it happen, but you will probably have to make a great deal of physical and interactive changes, but it can certainly be done.

Liz Phillips
MoKan Boxer Rescue


PS.. 'bites' that happen during dog fights are workable.. it does add an element of reconditioning, but as long as that is the ONLY time the dog has offered to bite/bitten, it can work. However, you have to stop it now, as by allowing the pattern to continue you are giving passive approval for this animal to act that way..

 

[T&R'sDad]

Update:

Thank you very much for those didn't slam me for being upset. I posted last night and I was very stressed and upset. I didn't need to hear that I didn't love or that my home was not a "forever home".

We just got home from the vet. We are going to re-train Trouble and Rowdy. Trouble is the definite Alpha male and we are going to treat him that way. Trouble is going to be fed first, the only one allowed to be on the sofa, his home will be away from Rowdy's and will be placed in the master bedroom.

We are also starting behaviral training, but a different method. Using relaxation techniques.

Liz, The vet stated the same thing about the specialist, that is was moronic that we changed the placement of the dogs. We should treat Trouble as the Alpha. As far as placing Trouble in a new home I don't think it is a good option. He has seperation anixity(sp?), has to be on Iams or Eukanuba food or he throws up and becomes dehydrated. He is a very special dog as he is the only one who survived his litter. His mother had bactieral infection in her milk. So he was basically hand raised. The breeder has not found any problem like he has had. The mother and father get along very well with other dogs. His father is very playful, just as he is.

Thank you again for the encourgment. We are going to get through this, I really believe our home is the best home for them both. We just need to get through this and hopefully the new training will help.

Thank you again,
Rusty

 

[Claudia807]

What a great post, Liz. I already knew you were a smart cookie but now I'm doubly in awe!

I was listening to Dr. Patricia McConnell's radio show (Calling All Pets) the other day and she said several times that she thinks it's a bad idea to take home two littermates - period. I hope a lot of people heard that. Otherwise, how would you know? I can see how people think it would be great to raise two siblings together.

I have talked to so many people who have female littermates who can't get along. You are so right - once the girls start, they definitely won't stop. Our rescue never places two females together but we do occasionally place males together, depending on the circumstances. A lot of people think females are "maternal" and affectionate and they get mad about the policy. They think their little buttercup would never fight with another girl. Ha!

Claudia
Green Acres Boxer Rescue of WI

 

[Sube Ru's mom]

I agree with everything Liz has said, working in rescue for 2 years and also going to the dog parks i have seen some of the worst fights possible.

I think the behaviorist is a complete idiot (sorry) like Liz said, the basic priniciple that needs to be established is that YOU AND YOUR FAMILY are the alpha, and then the 2 dogs will work out who is alpha, i dont know but sitting here i would guess that Trouble is the alpha, if this is the case then HE needs to be fed FIRST! he is too come FIRST! in everything, by allowing the other dog to come first the pack order is going into complete chaos because the order is being reversed.

I would suggest 2 things- talk to TULSA DAN- he is a HUGE help and a behavorist, second i would get the book "the dog listener" by Jan Ferrell. This book is AWESOME!

I know that 2 females that fight- better forget it, they will never get along again or chances are SLIM, but 2 males- you might have a chance.

I also agree with Liz on IF you have to give up trouble, you need harmony in the household and you cant let your emotions interfer, i am by NO MEANS suggesting that you should give up, but if you have tried everything else, then you might not have a choice, this is a decision that same sex dog parents have the risk of facing, myself included (i have 2 females). But i do believe there is hope out there. Dont give up yet and keep your chin up.

 

[T&R'sDad]

These two boys are not litter mates. They are from different parent and breeders all together. Trouble is froma very good breeder.

Rowdy on the other hand was from very poor scum of the earth breeder. When got Rowdy he was in a 5x5 room with a concrete floor with nothing to lay on besides his on feces. He was the last of his litter and the "breeder" was just about to kill him, because he was too old.

We turned them in to the USDA, and filed a police report although I don't think anything was ever done.

Rowdy is very submissive and is very wary of large men. He will cower and uranate on himself if a man gets too close. Unless he feels that his mom is being threatened by the human. This has only happened once while she was walking them and a gentleman walked up from thier side. He didn't hang around for very long.

 

[Sube Ru's mom]

I just saw your update, i am glad that your vet seems to realize the behavorist obviously did not have all his/her marbles.

Claudia- My rescue is the same, we USUALLY do not allow a home with 2 females and on occasion will allow 2 males to live together, Pat and i were the exception, rescue felt with our strong personalities, subi and baileys temperment and our training abilities that we would be okay- i hope i can say 10 years from now we are the EXCEPTION to the rule.

I will say i will never do same sex dogs in my house again- it is a CONSTANT worry for me wondering if SUbi and Bailey are ever going to get into it.

T&R's dad- does Trouble give ANY kind of warning when he is about to get into it?? Usually a dog will stare down the other dog or their posture changings. Maybe you can see this and stop the fight before it even starts.

Also- regarding breaking up fights- NEVER put your hands near the collar or anywhere near their mouth, practically nothing will break up a dog fight- water, shouting, etc etc, the only thing i found that works (again from dog parks) is grabbing the hind legs- but you need TWO people to do this, but each of you grabs the hind legs and pull them apart this way and it is enough of a shock to break the dogs up and get them under control.