$1000 for the "rare" white boxer puppy?!?

[JulieM]

"I think these discussion about the merits of white boxers, whether they should be bred or not serve no purpose."

The purpose is to educate others, so that "rare" white boxers, and the exclusion of 25% of the breed gene pool for no other reason than color become a thing of the past.

"I was at the vet on Saturday and this woman had a Harlequin Great Dane. She said that up until 5 years agos these beautiful dogs were put to sleep at birth. IF you want something to complain about there is something to get mad about."

The same thing happened with white boxers, until enough people got upset about it.

"Also you could look at Peta's website. You will find plenty of things to get upset about there."

Just take that information with a grain of salt. PETA is very good at letting people see only what they want them to see.

Julie

 

[JulieM]

Alisha,

I agree with you that whites are not worth any less than their colored littermates. However, just be aware that if you sell your white puppies for the same price as the colored puppies, you will not be allowed to become a member of the ABC. (Until such a time as the antiquated policy on whites changes. It will, some day, but there are several people that have to ...fade away... before then.) You possibly will not be allowed membership in an ABC member club, depending on the club. The offical ABC stance is that you may not sell white puppies at all, only place them in homes, and that you may not include them on the litter count. (Which, of course, means no registration, limited or otherwise.)

It is a sad state of affairs, but if you cannot become a voting member of the organization, how can you hope to change things?

Just my thoughts....

Julie

 

[Lisa M]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JulieM:
"I think these discussion about the merits of white boxers, whether they should be bred or not serve no purpose."

The purpose is to educate others, so that "rare" white boxers, and the exclusion of 25% of the breed gene pool for no other reason than color become a thing of the past.

Julie<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm confused by your post you seem to be saying discussions of breeding or not breeding white boxers serves no merits then to advocate adding white boxers back into the breeding stock in the next sentence. I don't feel that the purpose of discussing this is to do what you say ... the purpose of breeding is to advance the breed standard. As long as white boxers are "faulted" why would an ethical breeder want to breed them?

As long as we have flashy boxers, we will have white boxers - the gene is not going anywhere. White boxers are not rare. Is one in four rare? I have a white boxer and love him dearly, I would never want to see the day return when white boxers were culled by breeders again or any other breed's faulted color as you mentioned.

But the belief that white boxers shouldn't be breed doesn't mean that they aren't to be loved and deserving of wonderful lives and homes. What I really fear is people breeding so called "pet quality" dogs (which is what a white boxer is - a dog that can't be shown and belongs with a loving family)without regard for the breed standard will return us to the day when breeders felt that dogs that were the "wrong" color had to be put to sleep. That would be a sad day indeed and I'm sorry to say that I think people who breed white boxers think they are doing the white boxer a service which they are not.

Just because a person doesn't want to breed or advocate breeding a dog of a certain color or a dog with a fault doesn't mean they are not being ethical towards them! As a white boxer owner, I find this notion offensive.


------------------
mama to:
-Sumi, lab mix "pound puppy"
-Casper, white boxer rescued from the Dade County Animal shelter

[This message has been edited by Lisa M (edited 12-15-2000).]

 

[Alisha Mobley]

JulieM, Your right about the ABC membership stuff and I had completely forgot about it. I had thought about being a member in the past but I feel it would be better to wait until some of the others do fade out. I don't agree with some of their beliefs and feel it would be hard to be a part of something I don't whole heartedly believe in. I agree with your thoughts about after some of the older members fade out things may change.

------------------
Tyson - brindle male, cropped ears (6/18/98)
Prudence - brindle female, cropped ears (8/29/99)
Sheeba - fawn female, cropped ears (1/17/00)
Alisha - Indiana

 

[JulieM]

Lisa,

The comment about the discussion having no purpose was a quote from a
previous message (hence the quotation marks).

You wrote "the purpose of breeding is to advance the breed standard."
Actually, the purpose of breeding is to create animals that fit the breed
standard, but I think we mean the same thing.

However, I was not talking about the purpose of breeding. I was talking
about the purpose of discussing white Boxers. Totally different things.
Yes, white Boxers are currently excluded from showing by the breed standard,
and because of this they should not be bred. I feel, however, that there is
no logical reason to exclude white Boxers from showing - and thus breeding -
and so perhaps the standard should be changed. That will not happen until
people are educated about the realities of white Boxers, and education
cannot happen without discussion.

I know that white Boxers are not rare. Again, the quotation marks around
the word mean that it is someone else's term, not mine. Another purpose of
discussion about white Boxers is educate the public that they are not rare.

I also have a white Boxer, she was my fourth and we purposely sought a white
female. She has been spayed because at this time it is against the ABC Code
of Ethics for me to breed her. Of course, she is structurally the nicest
Boxer I have.

I understand that you are offended by the notion that not advocating
breeding a dog with a listed fault is not ethical. I do not understand how
you attribute that notion to me - the word "ethic" in any form is not in my
post. Perhaps you are referring to someone else.

If my post did offend you, I apologize, but I think perhaps you did not read
it thoroughly because we agree on many of these things.

Julie


[This message has been edited by JulieM (edited 12-15-2000).]

 

[Lisa M]

Julie,
I'm sorry. I was on the phone when I read your post and didn't realize those were quotes you added from someone else cuz they look bold and indented whenever I've quoted someone one the board. But I got ya! I think you were pretty much saying the same thing I was too when I looked again.

With regards to ethical - I was refering to the PETA comment which was also a quote. PETA stands for people for the ethical treatment for animals (doesn't it? I hope I'm not wrong on this too :rolleyes: ).

We do agree on some things and disagree on others. I also don't think white boxers should be breed for the breed standard reason, but I support keeping white boxers out of the breed standard because they do seem to really have a higher occurance of deafness and I would worry about that adding to further health problems in more boxers if they were added to the breeding stock. I don't know if that is a reasonable fear or not, I'm not a breeder or a genetic scientist.


------------------
mama to:
-Sumi, lab mix "pound puppy"
-Casper, white boxer rescued from the Dade County Animal shelter

 

[Chad and Mav]

this is for Clia. just wanting to know where you got your pup. in B-more? i am also a VERY PROUD owner of a white boxer that was also born in January of 2000. the 5th to be exact. i know there were 2 but never asked where any of the others one went to. just wondering.

as for this silly price issue. i would have paid $2000 for Maverick. i never thought a dog could give someone so much joy, fun, and pride as Mav gives me. if all our boxers were the same, what fun would that be?!?! still would be fun, just not as much!!! but i do take a lil offense at the attitude of some people towards white boxers. i have an idea...i think boxers who are not champions should not be able to breed...i think boxers who dont meet the exact breed standard should not be loved....how ridiulous do i sound right now? pretty bad huh? im hearing the same message from some who talk about how whites, as well as some others who might not be perfect, should have this done to them, that done to them, etc.
love your dog, love your buddies dog, love them all no matter what. im a teacher and i try to send the same message to my students. get over all this nonsense and be happy there are people (and puppies!) that care for you. do white boxers love YOU any less than a brindle or fawn? youd know the answer to that if you ever met Maverick. i wish more PEOPLE could be like Mav and be totally nondiscrimitive (if thats a word?) and give kisses and hugs to EVERYBODY he comes across.

ok, ill step off my soapbox now and go hang out with my dog. and for YOU...get off this computer for a minute and go pet your dog!!!

take care

Chad and Maverick

 

[JulieM]

Lisa,

Yes, the "E" in PETA probably does stand for "ethical" - in my mind it stands for "erratic" so I didn't make the connection

We do agree on many things. I do not, contrary to what I may have implied, agree with the full-steam-ahead breeding of white Boxers. However, I also do not agree that whites are "more prone" to deafness or other health problems. We simply lack scientific evidence to support any theory about the health of white Boxers. What I would like to see is the American Boxer Club do a breeding study on white Boxers, similar to what the Doberman Pinscer Club of America did when whites were found in their breed. (In their case, whites were found to be a form albinism, which is not the case in Boxers. The point is that the parent club *investigated* the issue, instead of just trying to hide it by culling white puppies. Radical concept, no?) I breed/sell according to the ABC Code of Ethics, but that doesn't mean I agree with it. The day will come when whites are accepted as members of the Boxer breed. I'm ready and waiting for it!

Julie

 

[Chad and Mav]

thanks, Mike. Mav couldnt agree with me more either!!!!!!

 

[Lisa M]

Chad, I fail to understand how not breeding a dog = not loving that dog or is a kind of "discrimination" in people's eyes. If you read through all of the posts you'll realize that NO ONE was saying that white boxers don't deserve loving and wonderful homes - EVERY DOG EVER BORN IS EQUALLY DESERVING OF A LOVING FAMILY AND A SAFE HOME. Unfortunately thanks to attitudes like this which equate breeding a dog with a validation of that dog - there are too many dogs and not enough loving homes for them which anyone who visits their local shelter will discover. As humans we should be responsible for the dogs we bring into this world which means careful and selective breeding should be the norm.
Since you know your dog's point of view, I'd like to tell you that I KNOW if Sumi could talk, she would tell you that she is deeply loved, ask me to please never breed her or Casper and ask all humans to be more careful before we create more puppies as long as so many wonderful dogs already sit at the shelter on death row wondering where there owner went and why they don't show up looking for them and hoping that someone will take them away from there. She speaks from experience and knows that most people never even come in to look at those cast away, lost pets - because they just never get past the rows of cute adorable puppies that have been irresponsibly bred and dumped at the shelter the night before. And though some of these wonderful puppies will be adopted and loved forever, others are failed by the people who adopt them they wind up where Casper was - in a cage at the shelter, refusing to eat due to fear and lonliness, but unlike Casper, most of them don't have someone that shows up wanting to love them taking them away from that scarey place with cold floors, ticks, kennel cough and death. Other puppies will be like Sumi and will get sick at the shelter and will have the staff discourage people from adopting them and unlike Sumi no one will fight to be able to take them home and nurse them back to health so they will be put to sleep before they are 9 weeks old. Now Sumi asks, is any of this fair to the dogs and puppies who never asked to be born but were brought into this world by misguided people, people who thought they would breed their pet and make extra money off of them, or people who didn't bother to get their dog fixed in time, or people who just wanted to have one puppy from the dog they love so much to keep for themselves, or people who think that breeding a dog is a sign that you love it?
As far as price goes I wouldn't sell either of my dogs for ANY AMOUNT of money but that doesn't mean that it would have been ethical for the folks that bred either one of them to overcharge for them. (As you can see, I got both from the shelter so I don't know what Casper had origianlly cost from his breeder.)

Julie, I'd support research into the issues you've mentioned. At least we would have further information which would help with making responisble decisions.

------------------
mama to:
-Sumi, lab mix "pound puppy"
-Casper, white boxer rescued from the Dade County Animal shelter

[This message has been edited by Lisa M (edited 12-18-2000).]