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White boxers - what's wrong?

Discussion in 'Showing - questions and answers' started by sarah_bailey, Feb 3, 2007.

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  1. sjdl

    sjdl Boxer Buddy

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    Check the CKC website you can now show white dogs with them . They do not disqualify them. Our children participate in junior handling and have done very well.
     
  2. JulieM

    JulieM Boxer Insane

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    Well, that's new. The ConKC (I'm guessing, by your location, that you don't mean the Canadian Kennel Club) didn't used to even have breed standards, much less put on actual dog shows. White Boxers have been shown in IABCA shows, as well, though they at least use a breed standard that's more than a paragraph long in that venue.

    The fact remains that the underlying purpose of dog shows is to evaluate breeding stock, and so the respected registry bodies honor the breed standards written and approved by the national parent clubs - which, in this breed at this point in time, means white Boxers may not be shown or bred.
     
  3. sjdl

    sjdl Boxer Buddy

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    Yes it is the ContKC they do have a breed standard and it is very detailed. They have been having shows for about the last 18 months. My one white with brindle markings is doing very well in the junior handlers with my children. She has been health checked by our vet ( who raises and shows boxers for the AKC ) and has no known problems. We need to remember that just because they lack pigmentation does'nt mean they are not true boxers. My baby was one of only 6 white boxers born to the same parents out of 7 breedings and over 86 pups. Her parents are dual registered AKC and CKC and her parents both were sired by champs and her father well on his way.
     
  4. JulieM

    JulieM Boxer Insane

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    Do you have a link to this standard? The one to which they refer people, in the FAQ, is this very general thing:

    Junior handling is not the same as conformation showing, though, at least not in the respectable registries. In junior handling, it is the handler who is being evaluated, not the dog, so that they can develop their skills. (Though dogs with disqualifications are not allowed to be shown in junior handling, either, in the respectable registries.)

    If your vet is a responsible Boxer breeder, of course, they have told you that a vet check does not mean the dog is free from genetic problems, and is not sufficient as breeding clearance.

    No one has ever said otherwise. Because they lack pigmentation, however, they are at higher risk of passing on related problems to their offspring, and so are not breeding candidates.

    Yikes!!! That poor bitch, being made to churn out over 86 puppies like some production line! Obviously that breeder can't even pretend to care about the welfare of their own dogs, let alone the breed. I am truly horrified and disgusted.

    Champions in which registry? Oh, really, it doesn't matter; this is quite clearly a puppymiller, though if they happened to be AKC champions it does illustrate the point that the simple presence of a champion in the pedigree does not mean one is dealing with a responsible breeder.

    This is probably a good time for a reminder that Boxerworld does not allow the promotion of irresponsible breeding practices - seven litters from one bitch most definitely is included in that definition, as is breeding a white Boxer and breeding with only a vet check.
     
  5. Boxerowner2

    Boxerowner2 Boxer Buddy

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    The FCI states that white is only a fault not a DQ like AKC. I know a few that have shown FCI or will be soon. The white boxer some day will be allowed back in to the standard. If someone wants to show their dog for fun I really dont see why they shouldnt. JMO
     
  6. GoCougs

    GoCougs Go Daddy Moderator<br><img src="/forums/images/mod

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    No, it won't. The US boxer breed standard is written by the nation breed parent club, the American Boxer Club. The standard as it is submitted to the AKC is voted on by membership of the parent club, who are breeders that understand that understand the genetics of this breed.

    The genetics of the color patterns of boxers is not that complicated. Anyone can take 15 minutes looking at it, with an open mind, and realize how potentially devastating it could be to allow whites to be used as breeding stock.

    Perhaps you should go back to the first page of this discussion where it is very clearly explained why this is the case.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2007
  7. gmacleod

    gmacleod Elusive Moderator Staff Member

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    The FCI may not make white a disqualification - but it states clearly that the only acceptable coat colours are fawn or brindle. White markings are allowed - NOT encouraged. And anything over the maximum amount of white allowed (1/3 of the body) is a fault that shall be punished in exact proportion to its degree. Under that regime, it would be impossible for a dog that was white, mostly white, or even significantly white, ever to be legitimately placed in a show.

    You might also note that the incidence of white markings on boxers in the part of the world setting that breed standard (ie. Germany) is significantly lower than in North America.

    That is why things like agility, rally, obedience, tracking, flyball and any number of other dog events were invented. Why anyone wants to enter a contest that has the sole purpose of selecting animals for breeding, with an animal that cannot or cannot responsibly be used for breeding, is the mystery. That sort of thing would just turn showing into some sort of mindless beauty contest.
     
  8. sjdl

    sjdl Boxer Buddy

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    Everybody keeps on saying that white boxers are more likely to be this and that but i have seen more boxers in my vets office that are "akc" champ studded that have cancer-HUGE tumors that require multiple surgeries and treatments, so far out of the dozens and dozens of people i have met that have white boxers i have only seen one with cancer and it was a small tumor in his mouth. The akc boxers i mentioned above are fawns and brindles what are the overall chance that a colored boxer will have some form of cancer? Why is this anyless more serious than totally white boxers.
     
  9. gmacleod

    gmacleod Elusive Moderator Staff Member

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    Who said it's not relevant? All genetic diseases are relevant and no animal that carries a significant defect that may be passed on and affect the quality or length of life of offspring can responsibly be bred. And no responsible breeder ever breeds a dog without first screening for those conditions that can be prescreened. That includes dogs with heart conditions, it includes dogs with hip dysplasia, thyroid issues, those cancers that are believed to have a genetic inheritance, allergies... the list goes on. And it includes dogs who will produce offspring with diluted pigment and a high risk of associated deafness. That means whites, if you didn't realise it, irrespective of whether the offspring are coloured.

    The genetic reasons why unpigmented dogs cannot responsibly be used for breeding are well documented. That's by mammilian geneticists - not someone who's seen a few dogs in a vets office. They're already explained in this thread (and have nothing to do with cancer).

    sjdl: You have been warned already about the promotion of irresponsible breeding. One more and I'm removing you from the site.
     
  10. sjdl

    sjdl Boxer Buddy

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    Did I every mention BREEDING? The answer is NO. I have only mentioned showing. And by the way I never said cancer wasn't relevant, I am saying if you were told you could no longer show your fawn boxer because the color had too many instances of cancer and you dog was healthy how would you feel? I am not breeding my dog my children are showing them. Showing a dog is for pride and never should be used to sell anything, I have heard of people seeing acertain breed win a certain event and go right out and buy that kind of dog, not because they like it-but because it is in style or because it WON. I don't want to see the Boxer breed exploited like that. In fact I don't want any breed done like that. There are responsable breeders and owners out there and there are breeders who don't give a rats about anything just the money that their AKC, CKC, (whatever registry group they use) can make for them. Please understand that I have only bred MY BRINDLE and MY FAWN dogs once in 4 years, both dogs were cleared of having any genetic problems and guess what my dogs were murdered by a person I denied the ability to adopt a puppy, because he had a conviction of animal cruelty in my county. How many breeders do you know pay to find out if there buyers have any kind and I mean any kind of criminal record. I don't care if you littered you are not responsable enough to care for one of my babies.
     
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