Puppy holds it all night, can't hold it during day?

[BrandonT]

I wanted to expand on some questions I have regarding our new puppy. Max is 8 weeks and has only been with us 3 days (2 nights). The first day he didn’t drink anything from 6pm to morning and slept all night. The second night, no water after about 7pm – he woke us up though at 3am. He still didn’t potty, though, he just wanted attention. So apparently he either isn’t getting enough water OR has a heck of a tolerance for holding it.

The second part is that he keeps going in the kitchen when we’re home. The issue here is, we let him out of his crate and immediately go outside. He does his thing and we praise him greatly. We usually wait until we’re sure he is done, and then come inside. However 4 times now he has peed within 30 minutes of being out. We are in close proximity and he just – goes. Once I caught him and 3 times he was just around the corner or behind a table. That’s a lot of peeing and I don’t see him drinking that much water.

What’s the deal? Keep him crated more? Keep him outside longer? 30 minute bathroom trips while out of crate? I don’t want to scold him any more than necessary, but he’s going to need to learn to hold it even outside of the crate.

 

[Jan]

no water after about 7pm – he woke us up though at 3am. He still didn’t potty, though, he just wanted attention. So apparently he either isn’t getting enough water OR has a heck of a tolerance for holding it.

He probably just woke up and though he would like some attention. Just take him out and if he doesn't go. Just put him back in the crate.

Puppies need to pee much more often during the day. They often will pee twice, so maybe you are taking him in too soon. Some puppies will pee every 30 minutes, so you should either take him out again or after 30 minutes of free time, you can put him back in the crate for a little while. This way he will learn to hold it for a while. Of course this will only work if he hasn't learned to pee in the crate and the crates not too big.

Do not scold you puppy if you find and accident. Just clean it up when the puppy is not watching. If you scold the puppy, it will only teach him to make sure that you're not watching. If you catch him in the act, just quickly pick him up and quickly take him out. Just say oop's, outside. Reward him for going outside. A treat and lots of praise. With puppies, it is much better to reward good behavior and ignore the bad. The bad behavior will eventully extinguish itself.

The highly recommend "The Culture Clash" by Jean Donaldson. It is really an excellent book and it will help understand how your puppy thinks.

Good Luck with your puppy!

 

[BrandonT]

Thanks for the response. The Vet helped yesterday too. He said that they don't need to relieve themselves at night (indeed, Max slept all night again). But they may relieve themselves after playing or eating - two things that usually happen after he goes out in the morning. So he goes out, does his thing, comes in, eats & plays - then has to go again. Good to know. Also we started givings small treats outside as an immediate reward, which seems to help a LOT. So we'll keep working on it. I'm about 1/2 way through 'The Culture Clash' and already finished 'Boxers for Dummies'.

 

[BrandonT]

I have a further question on our pup. His not holding it during the day is getting on our nerves a little. He knows what to do when he goes out. But when we’re home and he’s out of his crate we have to watch him like a HAWK. Saturday we saw him sniffing – so I got up to take him out. He came into the kitchen to the back door but when I picked up the leash – he ran back into the living room and squatted. Last yesterday he peed in the house within 10 MINUTES of going out. Then last night he would not potty outside at all, and went in his crate for the first time last night (poop). We always give him 5 minutes outside or more if he looks ‘interested’, but he’s been just sitting and looking at us. We also bought some new treats he likes much better and he gets these right after going. He just doesn’t seem to like going outside. I know he’s only 9 weeks, but how do we teach that it isn’t ok to just go whenever and wherever?

 

[zzzina]

Bell Training?

When we brought our little one home, ( actually a week or so later) we started with bell training. We got a bell, a simple Walmart Christmas bell will do, and tied it from a string on the doorknob. Everytime we brought Cashew out for potty, we pushed her nose to the bell to make it ring. We immediately brought her outside afterward. She realized ( I think) that the bell meant she had to potty. Now everytime she needs to go out, SHE rings the bell. We've only had a couple accidents in the house, mainly because WE were not paying close enough attention to her bell ringing. So we bought a louder bell, now we pay attention, . appicon And be sure to give the pup a treat and alot of praise after the outside business is done.

 

[Rlr.Giraffe]

It takes time . They are trying really hard to figure you out and all of the new rules... I know it is so frustrating, but I swear he will learn. And he will learn faster if you can stick to what you are doing and be ultra-consistent. Jan's advice is absolutely spot on, and we used bell training too so Willis would have a way of telling us when he has to go. Good luck!

Jan - just curious why you recommend cleaning it up when he's not watching? I haven't heard that before and just want to know anything that will make it easier when we get pup #2!

 

[BrandonT]

Well, Max is 10 weeks now and is getting much bigger. We have had a much bigger problem the past couple of days. He pees and often poops in his crate when left alone. We thought he was holding it until we found out that his foam bed had simply absorbed a bunch of urine. That bed got thrown out. We’ve been following all the ‘standard’ advice since day 1:
- We have him on a consistent schedule and he gets let out at lunch. He has about 4 hours alone in the AM and PM to hold it.
- His crate is restricted by a divider to where I’d be uncomfortable making it any smaller. He can curl up or lay down lengthwise in it but that’s about all the room he has.
- We praise like crazy and give treats outside right when he goes.
- He normally poops 4 times a day so we give him a lot of time in the AM, Noon, 5, and 9pm. Sometimes he just sits there – like he’s off schedule.
- We are using a bell, which he has begun to rung on his own when we’re home and he’s out of the crate.
- We restrict his water and food at least an hour before he ‘goes in’.

I think he is having anxiety about us leaving him, and may have found that since he relieved himself once it’s ok to do that now. My wife read on another site that once they do that in their crate their inhibition is broken and they will continue to do so. So last night in an effort to get him to at least not sleep in his own waste – we took the divider out. Normally he holds it all night (we think), but last night he pooped on the far end of his crate – away from his bed. We also had a puppy pee pad there but he shredded it – so we don’t know if he peed on it or not.

So now what do we do? We could continue to give him the full crate with the intention of re-installing the “Don’t pee where you sleep” thing. Or we could go back to a restricted crate and just clean it out noon and night. I really think it’s either that he has somehow confused the schedule or has anxiety when we leave. On a side note – we now use a fleece blanket for his bed, but the pee runs right through it, so he stays dry (just like the foam bed did) – is this part of the problem? If so, what to you line the bottom with?

 

[gmacleod]

Well, I think you're expecting a bit much of a ten week old baby puppy. There's no way in the world he's going to be toilet trained that young - he'll start to truely understand at around 7 months old, but prior to that it's primarily about management. You can be accident free - but only if

2 suggestions: First, 4 hours is too long for a 10 week old puppy to 'hold it' during the day. The best you can reasonably expect is 3 hours at this point (but his bladder is growing, in another few weeks he'll probably make it). If you don't want to teach him to pee/poop in his crate, then you need to let him out to potty sooner.

Right now, he has no choice - he just can't last. It doesn't matter that he can go longer overnight. We can all hold it longer overnight when we're sleeping. That is because bodily functions, including urine production, slow down during serious sleep time. In short, the rules overnight do not apply during the day time. If your puppy is awake and active, he'll need to go every half-hour to an hour. If he's awake and/or napping in his crate, the longest he will be able to hold on, in hours, is his age in months + 1 (to a maximum of 8 hours). Your pup is just over two months, so he should be able to do 3 hours.

Second, rather than further restricting the room he has in his crate, take the bedding out. Up until now he's had something to soak up the urine, so peeing in there is no big deal to him. There is still a limit to how long he can possibly hold on (and right now that is less than 4 hours, so you still need to address (1) ), but he also needs an incentive to do so because while he may be able to hold on for three hours, he'll feel the need to go somewhat earlier. You need to make holding his bladder the lesser of the two evils.

 

[BrandonT]

Ok, that reinforces some of what we were thinking. What was really disappointing was that the first week with us we thought that he WAS holding it for 4 hours. It turns out he was peeing in his bed. Unfortunately we cannot let him out every 2-3 hours. The best we can do is 4, so for a couple of weeks - I guess it's just nightly cleanup and baths until he can hold it. We will try removing the bedding - at least during the day. At night he seems to do better especially if we limit water 2 hours before bed. It's frustrating, to be sure. Max can already sit, lay down, speak, and stay. No kidding. So it's pretty tough to understand why he can't get this down. High expectations, I guess.

 

[gmacleod]

So it's pretty tough to understand why he can't get this down. High expectations, I guess.

High expectations, yes, but also unrealistic ones. What you do have to understand that it's not a matter of training but is a physical limitation (potty training is mostly about *where* to go). He's a baby, and babies have little bladders and not much control of them. As his bladder grows and his muscles develop, he'll be able to hold on longer. It shouldn't be long before he can manage 4 hours, but right now he's got pretty tight limitations, and you really need to work around that because he can't change it