Pinch Collar or Halti/Gentle lead??? Help!!! Very long, but need advice

[Kazz's Boxers]

ok, here's my problem, Bandit is a nut when ever I take him to the pet store, always wanting to play with everyone and every animal, so Brian and I were looking for something that would help us to restrain him, and to keep him from wheezing. Bandit knows heel, and I am still working on it with him, but if I use a choker on him, he just keeps pulling, so I tried a harness, (the kind that has the boxer on the front) it works but only to a degree. I can only imagine what some people were thinking of us last night, I mean it looked like Bandit has no manners what so-ever. I was so embarrassed.

So as Brian and I were looking at pinch collars, a couple with there boxer walked by and he had on one of those gentle leads, but when he seen Bandit he went nuts, and I mean nuts, barking and growling, and the guy didn't even say anything to his dog, while Brian and I BOTH had to hold Bandit back, and he had the nerve to say, "wow is your boxer wild" I was more concerned with bandit pulling me and Brian all over than with his comment, but he sugested using the gentle lead. And let me say that it wasn't working to well on this guys boxer. :mad:

Anyway, after the guy left, Brian said to me, how come his boxer's nose was so long, and it was, I have never seen a boxer with such a long snout. But it had the personality, color and actions of a boxer, but his face didn't.
So Brian and I tried on the gentle lead, and it started to dig under Bandit's eyes, and I took it off. As we were walking around I spotted one of those pinch collars, and we tried it on Bandit, and walked him around, and low and behold it worked, he got excited to see that other boxer but he didn't pull or try to get at him, (and no Bandit wasn't just tired).

So we walked Bandit around some more, and it really worked, but people kept pointing at us and whispering about the collar. And to boot, a store worker walked up to Us and said "you know, if your dog had some manners, you could try a gentle lead" I was shocked, I wanted to cry, so Brian and I explained to her that we tried everything with bandit but the pinch collar. She just walked away.

Well, Brian and I proceeded to buy the pinch collar and as we were checking out, the same lady (who works there) said to us "you know those are really dangerous if used by the wrong people, you could kill your dog with that" Once again I didn't say anything, I let it go and I shouldn't have, :mad: I really want to tell her off) but I didn't want to make a scene. Brian told her this time, and very firmly "look we have tried everything else, we might as well try this"

So my question is, does anyone out there use a pinch collar on your boxer. Does anyone use a head halti/gentle leader? And if so what are the pro's and con's. Does the head halti/gentle leader dig into your boxers head under the eyes?

I am so frustrated, :( and after last night, I don't even want to take Bandit back to that pet store. Bandit is fine if I take him by myself, but I just don't know what happened last night, :( I cried on the way home last night because I was so upset with both the store, the guy with the other boxer, myself, & bandit. :(

Melanie

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Melanie
Bandit's Mom
Male, Fawn, Black Mask, White toes & white spot on Chest, Neutered, Floppy ears, Docked Tail, born 11/01/99
http://KazzsWhiseyBandit.homestead.com/homepage.html

[This message has been edited by Bandit's Mom (edited 11-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Bandit's Mom (edited 11-08-2000).]

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

I hear your pain. I feel bad for you, but don't worry and DO NOT let those other people tell you what is best for you and your dog.

I don't use a pinch collar on my puppy -- YET. I have considered it and have done some quality research. I can share what I've learned with you.

First off, the pinch collar is LESS harmful for your dog than a regular choke chain. The pinch collar does NOT got into the skin and does not hurt your dog. Additionally, it stays in place on your dog's neck and will not damage the dog's trachea like regular choke collars can do if used improperly (pulling the choke from above for instance).

Boxers are very, very strong dogs and can be extremely stubborn and determined. I have experienced so much of this with my little one already, I'm very worried about when she gets older and much stronger than me. Thus, I am considering a pinch collar in order to maintain control of the dog.

I know a woman in my neighborhood who owns two very large boxers. She is very slight and tiny and the boxers are HUGE! She uses pinch collars. I have asked her about them and she swears by them. She also says they do not hurt her dogs but her dogs are much better controlled and behave much better with the pinch collar. She said that the pinch collars were the only way she has been able to maintain control of her dogs. They are just too big and strong for her.

She too told me she gets the most rude and uninformed comments from people about using such a "cruel" collar on her dog. She told me she responds by saying "would you rather the dog wear a regular collar and jump on you and knock you on your butt, or would you rather I use a pinch collar to keep the dog off you and you and your kids safe?" That usually shuts them up.

I have even had people make rude comments to me about my correcting Maggie on our walks. I really don't care what other people have to say about it. I know I am NOT hurting my dog and that she MUST be corrected and learn the SAFE and PROPER behavior. I do not beat my dog, but I am very stern with her when she acts up and misbehaves. I'm sorry that upsets other people, but I know I'm doing the right thing because my dog is so much better behaved than most other dogs I see, already at only 5 months old!!

Do what you feel is necessary. You and your husband (and all of us here) know you love your dog and would do nothing to harm him. Using these collars is NOT cruel, but is actually a great gift to your dog in the long run because they will learn the proper behavior and you and the dog will both be much happier and share many more good times than bad.

If you feel you need a pinch collar in order to control Bandit, then by all means do what you feel you need to do. You will not hurt your dog (these collars are not designed to hurt dogs, but to correct them), and your dog will not stop loving you. Remember he wants to please you, so you need to let him know in a way he can understand -- be that a pinch collar or not -- what you expect of him.

Good luck with the training. And DO NOT let other people who DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT confuse you or shame you into doing anything other than what you feel is best for YOUR dog. Only you know your dog well enough to know what is needed.

Hope this helps a little.

Dan

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Dan from Brooklyn
Proud Pappa to Maggie Mae
Born 6/16/00
Flashy Fawn, docked tail, natural ears.
Pictures: http://www.d-batt.com/Maggie.html

 

[Kazz's Boxers]

Dan,
Thank-you, you have already easied my mind, i forgot to metion that we also bought the caps that go on the end of the prongs. I plan on taking bandit for a very long walk after i get my wisdom teeth out (which is tomorrow morning) so if i am up to it i will walk him thursday night.

I feel that i did the right thing by buying a pinch collar, i had one for my rottie a couple of years ago and it worked for him. And he was triple the size of Bandit.

I too have done lots of research on pinch collars and learned the pro's and con's of them vs regular collars. So i believe that i am doing the right thing.

As far as other people telling me what to do, i try to listen to there point of view also, but say nothing. But when people point and whisper it hurts. :(

Thank-you for your input. You have brightened my day.

Melanie

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Melanie
Bandit's Mom
Male, Fawn, Black Mask, White toes & white spot on Chest, Neutered, Floppy ears, Docked Tail, born 11/01/99
http://KazzsWhiseyBandit.homestead.com/homepage.html

 

[Tulsa-Dan]

Glad you are feeling better about your decision. I'm sure you are doing the right thing. I know I really hate being stern with my Maggie, but it must be done in order to teach her the safe and proper behavior I expect from her.

Regarding your wisdom teeth removal, if your experience is anything like mine, don't plan on taking Bandit for a walk the same day. I doubt you'll be up for it. And besides, you need to be in a good frame of mind, not in pain or distracted in order to start your new work with Bandit. So, if you aren't feeling your good old self, delay starting the new collar training until you feel relaxed and are not in pain. I'm sure Bandit will appreciate it.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Dan


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Dan from Brooklyn
Proud Pappa to Maggie Mae
Born 6/16/00
Flashy Fawn, docked tail, natural ears.
Pictures: http://www.d-batt.com/Maggie.html

 

[Kazz's Boxers]

:D Thank-you

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Melanie
Bandit's Mom
Male, Fawn, Black Mask, White toes & white spot on Chest, Neutered, Floppy ears, Docked Tail, born 11/01/99
http://KazzsWhiseyBandit.homestead.com/homepage.html

 

[lb]

we finally bought harley a pinch collar this last weekend. i am only 128 pounds and he weighs 90. walking him alone has not been an option in many months.
i only wish we had bought it long ago! he doesn't seem to mind it in the least!
the real test though was walking by spike and shelby's house! these are neighborhood boxers and it is always a real tug of war when we even get near their house! harley even pulls jb to the fence line trying to get to the other boxers! with the pinch collar i had no trouble controlling him at all! it was wonderful!
i also agree with dan! do not let people get to you about this! they will always be others who don't agree with how you raise your dog. that's their problem...not yours!
as for the lady that worked in the pet store...next time get her name...call her boss. she is there to sell not be rude to customers!


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LB,JB,Mikey (2 year old cat), Sergeant Major Harley (black reverse male brindle born Jan.21,00)& Tante Blanche Marie (fawn & white female born July 19,00

 

[Alisha Mobley]

I started using the prong collar when my male was 8 months. He was large for 8 months and could easily pull all 104 lbs of me around. My trainer suggested it to correct the pulling and I haven't used anything else since (except the remote collar to train him to stay in our unfenced yard). I started using the prong collar on my females when they were between 10 - 12 weeks. This is when I introduced them to a leash. So the first time they were on a leash it was with the prong collar and they have never pulled.

I also did the research on these collars and was very happy to read that they are much safer than the choke collars and even the flat buckle collars. I read about a study that was done on dogs. They took 50 dogs and used choke collars on them for their entire lives and took 50 dogs and used prong collars for their entire lives. After each dog had died they checked them for any damage to the neck. Out of the 50 that used the choke collars 48 of the dogs had neck damage. I think 2 were hereditary. Out of the 50 that used the prong collar 2 had neck damage and 1 was hereditary. I figured the odds of the prong collar hurting one of my dogs is very very low. I did notice on Sheeba her neck would have red marks on it at first after training. But they didn't hurt her and were not near as noticeable as the red marks left on her neck after playing with the other 2 dogs. The collar doesn't leave any marks any more because I very rarely have to correct her now.

I have never had anyone say anything to me about these collars when we are out. I take my dogs every where I can and they always have these collars on. My new vet mentioned something about being careful with them because she has seen these collars puncture through the dogs trachea. I think if one of these collars were to ever do that to a dog then who ever was on the other end of the leash was trying to hurt the dog.

Our trainer has told us about people saying stuff to him for correcting a dog he is training when he is out in public. He said he offers them the leash and asks if they have a better way, and for them to get the dog to sit or heal or whatever he is trying to do. He told us about a lady he met in a park that came running over to him with her dog and started yelling at him for correcting a dog. He said her dog was pulling and jumping and being a real pain so he asked her to show him with her dog how to make one sit. She couldn't so he gave her one of his business cards. I guess what I'm getting at is no matter what you do there is always someone that doesn't agree with it. This is a professional trainer who trains police dogs, trained dolphins, he went to school to learn how to do this and he still has people telling him it is wrong.

Anyway, I am very happy to hear that I'm not the only one who uses them. I have suggested them to many people but I don't think anyone has really tried them. I'm glad the collar is working for your dog. Don't let anyone tell you that these collars are bad because their not.

Alsha - Indiana

 

[mysticalblues]

We have used both the gentle leader and the prong collar. The gentle leader did not cut into Brody's eyes and did work to keep him from pulling, but he was very unhappy with it on. He would often rub his face trying to get it off. We now use the prong collar and it works great. He does not pull at all. Actually, our trainer reccommends them for all the dogs he trains as they are better for the dogs than choker collars. We do not leave it on him all the time, only when we are going for a walk or to a store. If fitted properly, the prong collar will not hurt the dog. Our trainer actually got the collar for us, so we are sure it fits correctly. It should not hang loose like a choker. It fit like a regular collar. Our prong collar had two "lopes" on the chain part of the collar to attach the leash. We connect the the least to both of these lopes so the prongs do not dig in too much and make it more like a choker.

Don't listen to what everyone else says at the stores. They know no more about dogs than you or I. You have made the right decision for you and your dog and that is all that matters.

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Pam

Brody--6/99 Male neutered. Very handsome brindle.

 

[Alisha Mobley]

Pam - I have never tried connecting the leash to both loops on the prong collar. I would think that it wouldn't work properly this way. If the collar can't tighten then it can't pinch. When it pinches it doesn't dig into the neck it only pinches the skin kind of like a bite. When the collar is allowed to tighten it kinda absorbs the shock if the dog tries to take off or from the correction. If it can't tighten then I would think it is more like a buckle collar. Did you ask your trainer about this method? I don't know if it could harm your dog in the way a choke/buckle collar can. If it's not doing any harm and it works that's great.

Alisha - Indiana

 

[Cindy and Lacie.]

I also used the prong collar on Lacie during my 2 rounds of obedience training. I am now on the flat collar most to the time, BUT I cant say enough about the prong collar, I truly believed that it worked for us and it worked well.I do strongly encourage you to have a trainier show you how to use. What I liked is that I barely have to give a correction with it. When I was using just her flat collar in the begining I really had to yank to get her attention,. I even made my trainier put it on ME, because I was convinced that it was cruel, but she defiently changed my mind when she put it on me and explained to me how it works. Good luck and keep us posted.

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Cindy Corl
Lacie female, brindle, natural ears,7-17-99