Need some expert advice on my possible new dog

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Vela

Boxer Insane
I agree with Christina. I think it's wonderful you are wanting to give this girl a home but I think it would be stressful for her just coming from one home back to the breeder, going to your home, being bred, going back to the breeder to whelp and raise the puppies then going back to your home. My Ginger came to me just after weaning a litter. I will share her story. I in no way want to scare you away from this girl but this is what happened to me and I was very unprepared for all that happened.
Her pups were weaned and I was told it would be easier for her to come right to me. She whelped a week after the mother of my boy did. They are both from the same breeder. I didn't know much back then. I feel horrible now when I think back about how horrible that must have been for her. She was sold to someone as a pup, came back to the breeder at 1 year, had a litter at 2 1/2 and several died. She had a very hard time. Then she was sent home with me at the same time she lost her pups and her home. I don't regret taking her now and I paid 600 dolalrs for her. I wanted to give her a good home. I got her home and she was really scared. By the next day i noticed her boobies were starting to get lumpy looking and red and hot. I immediately took her to the vet. She hadn't even been home 24 hours. She was diagnosed with mastitis. I didn't know anything about mastitis in dogs. She was on antibiotics for 45 days for taht and a urinary tract infection that had her peeing vast amounts of blood, even the vet tech said OMG when she got the urine sample because there was so much blood. I had to use hot packs and milk my dog. I had to get all the infection out because the teats were blocked and it was so hard and I know i was hurting her. I would spend hours every day several times a day trying to help her and get it out. She never did stop bleeding up until she got spayed either. I had to get her healthy first though. I spent 700 dollars on her in vet bills within the first month I had her home. This was after paying for her and didn't include the spaying. I contacted the breeder and wasn't offered any compensation for any of it. I accepted the bills for myself because I had no choice and she had to get better. Of course that is not to say the breeder you are working with will not pay the bills but it was a horrifying experience and very scary. Dogs can die from mastitis, it can be a very bad infection and the teats can even swell so much they explode. And all of this was 8 weeks after whelping. There are also other dangers with the whelping itself but I don't know anything about those personally.

I would see if perhaps she would accept some money for her and you could just spay her instead. It was not something I would want to experience again.

Having said all that I really hope things work out. I know you would love to have her. If you decide to get her anyway with the breeding then it is entirely posisble everythign will be just fine and nothign ad at all will happen and that is definately what i would hope for! I do think it would be hard on her. My girl was very depressed until my boy cracker came home a week later.

I wish you the best of luck and only shared what happened to me to give you information not to scare you away. It's a hard decision.
 

Joan I.

Boxer Buddy
Thank you Vela for telling me your story. WHAT an ordeal! Maybe the niggling feeling that I had when the breeder offered this arrangement is my intuition telling me that this girl shouldn't have another litter. I do agree with all this. I think it WOULD be too hard on Kaylee to go through another new home, then another litter to boot.

Oh man, seems I may have a decision to make now. First things first, I will call the breeder this aft., and talk frankly with her about it. She may have a different opinion, but I hope she agrees that another litter is not in Kaylee's best interest, and that our loving home is.

Still wondering about the money issue. What do any of you think is fair? I am willing to pay, but I think $700 for a three year old dog is too much, plus I have to spay her.

Thanks again!

Joni
 
Prices for a dog varies by breeder. To be honest, unless this breeder had to pay the original owner back for her (and I doubt that), she is only out a vet visit if she even had one. But what a breeder charges for a dog is always a personal decision. I will cast no opinions on that.

But, let me add this. I rehomed an adult bitch once. Divorce again. I asked for nothing in return. The bitch had been spayed by the original owner per our original agreement. I charged nothing for the new home. I was so grateful to find such a good loving home willing to take in an older Boxer (meaning not just a cute puppy everybody wants). Money was never the object.

A breeder bred to Booker T many years ago. In that litter, there was a white boy. He was placed in a loving pet home. At 1 year old I believe, that person had to move into a non-dog apartment. She reluctantly gave back the white boy to the breeder. He was already neutered. The breeder called me immediately since this was a Booker T son. I found a FABULOUS!! home in another state for him. Someone I had become good internet friends with beforehand. He was sent to them and has been their buddy for several years now. In fact, she took him to the ABC in 2002 where he got his CGC title. I have become very good friends with this person. She shares photos every other month with both me and the breeder.

These are two personal stories of placing returned Boxers. And both had happy endings for all involved. There is nothing wrong with asking a price. But I would think $200 might be more acceptable since your breeder is out nothing financially. You are basically helping her out of a hole.

__________________
Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets
 

Joan I.

Boxer Buddy
Okay, consider your "good boxer deed" done for today! I am not going to support breeding Kaylee another time. I just left a message for the breeder to call me. When she does I will discuss the possibility of us taking Kaylee and spaying her, and offer her some money instead. If she doesn't want to do this, I will sadly walk away, and wait for the right rescue boxer to come my way. I hope for Kaylee's sake she agrees. I feel a bit nervous about the discussion, because what I am basically saying to this breeder is that I don't agree with her decision to breed Kaylee another time, and she may be insulted, I don't know. But that is her problem, I have to do what I feel is ethical.

Thank you so very much for your help. I have gathered quite a bit of opinions on this forum and the Boxer Ring Forum. Many people were very enthusiastic about me getting Kaylee, I know it's because boxer lovers all want to see that poor girl go to a loving home. I do want that for her too, but first I need to see what I can do to change this breeder's mind about another litter.

By the way, I am on a waiting list for a rescue boxer here in Alberta. It is rather a long list, more people than available boxers here, so could be a long wait. I am willing to wait, but have to admit I am eager. I find not having a dog in my home quite empty and sad.

Thanks again. Keep you posted!

Joni
 
Is the Canada Rescue gal Marta? If so, she is a FABULOUS woman. I think she is located in Alberta. We have been aquaintances for several years. I spent time with her at a show I was at up in Canada one weekend. Very nice woman.

But I actually do hope you get Kaylee. She needs a good ending to her sad story. I am sure she is a lovely girl and I hope the breeder realizes how lucky she is to have such a quality person wanting her :)

__________________
Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets
 

Joan I.

Boxer Buddy
Yes, she is Marta. Sounds like you are very well connected!

I will keep you posted on Kaylee. I really hope it works out too...
 

Vela

Boxer Insane
I too really hope the breeder will just agree to not having a litter with her and let you have her for a reasonable amount. That poor girl deserves a good and loving home. I paid "too much" for my Ginger girl at 2 1/2 and very sick. She also had a mast cell i had to have removed from her neck (Grade I) that was there when i purchased her. I would gladly pay it again though knowing what I know now. I truly believe I saved her life (another of their bitches got mastitis as well and her nipple DID explode =/ This was quite a bit after Ginger though) and I wouldn't trade her for any money.
I am praying for you for the outcome you are hoping for (for yours AND Kaylee's sake). Just let her know you don't feel comfortable with the breeding but you really would love to give her a good home and just have her spayed. I pray she will do what is right for that poor girl.

Good luck and let us know!
 

JulieM

Boxer Insane
Interesting.

I'm really not trying to be argumentative, or to make any decisions harder, but I'm curious why breeding this girl a second time would be unethical? Simply because she's been rehomed? Many people obtain adult bitches for breeding purposes, myself included, breed two or even three litters, and the bitches show no ill effects. Granted, we were the second home and not the third, but she'd been in the first home for 18 months as opposed to 8 weeks....

In this particular situation, if the breeder is planning on breeding the bitch 3 months after rehoming her, yes, that would probably be too soon. But what about breeding her in a year? Shouldn't the Boxer temperament be such that the bitch should be well-adjusted to her new home by then? Yes, breeding entails risks, and if one isn't comfortable with those risks one shouldn't enter a breeding agreement - but the risks are the same for a bitch whether she's in her first home or her fourth. How many top bitches spend years showing, essentially living with their handlers? Should they then be spayed when they're done showing, because they're in effect being "rehomed" with their owners and it would be unethical to breed them? Or is it OK to breed them once, but not twice?

I understand and do not at all disagree that a good home is more important than breeding rights. I also don't think it's necessarily a sin to hope for both. The breeder obviously feels this is a quality bitch if she'll be showing her, and if she's got 4 points at least one other person agreed. If she's passed all her health testing as well, if she had no problems with her first litter, and if her puppies from her first litter are quality and passing their health tests, is one really doing a service to the breed to spay this bitch simply because of a change of address?

I'm guessing the breeder will either keep the bitch herself, at least until the next litter is placed and she's recovered from the whelping, or find someone else who will agree to her being shown and bred. Knowing the wonderful experience I've had with a similar situation, I can't say I'd blame the breeder one bit for it.
 
Unethical?
No.

In the best interests of the bitch?
No.

In the best interests of her newbie possible owners who have no clue on this planet about breeding?
No

If Kaylee is that vitally important to this breeder as a brood bitch, she would keep her herself. Obviously this is not the situation the breeder planned for (having the bitch returned) and so I believe she should put the best interests of Kaylee above all else and place her in a loving and non-breeding home.

My opinion of course and I stick by it :)

__________________
Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets
 

Joan I.

Boxer Buddy
Wow! This is all so very interesting! I still haven't had a call back from the breeder yet, so haven't discussed it with her yet. There certainly is different sides to this situation. I did have another breeder on my "Boxer Ring" forum that thought the arrangement was fair as well.

I am altogether unsure as to what will happen, and somewhat shaky on where I stand with it all. I guess the best thing is for me to talk very openly with the breeder, express my concerns, and see what she is willing to do. I can see why she wants to breed Kaylee. Her dogs are gorgeous! I don't know it it's allowed to put a breeder's name on these forums, or I would put her web site up so you could have a look at her beautiful dogs.

I do have to think about what I am capable of going through, and my level of concern about the risks. I am worried to be sure. For Kaylee, and for us. When it comes right down to it, we are looking for a family pet, bot a show dog, or a breeding dog. But we also want to give a home to an adult dog in need, and she is definitely in need.

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted. Anyone else out there that wants to jump in, I appreciate all advice!

Joni
 
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