Need some expert advice on my possible new dog

[Joan I.]

Hi everyone:

My 2 sweet boxers recently died and even though I didn't think I would be up for getting another dog this soon, I find the house just doesn't feel good without that "boxer energy" in it... We want a a dog...

My husband and I decided we wanted to adopt an older boxer that needed a home. I met my former's husband's boxer breeder. (He has 2 boxers from her, a 4 year old boy, very nice, black brindle and flashy, and a fawn girl puppy, both very sweet gentle temperaments.) He is very happy with the breeder, and I met her yesteday and quite liked her too. She has a 3 year old girl boxer, also a flashy black brindle, and this girl needs a home. Her previous owners marriage split up, and now neither of them have a stable environment for a dog, so the breeder took her back. We haven't met this girl yet, (her name is Kaylee,) however Tom (my former husband,) has and says she is very polite and well-behaved, gentle sweet and loving. We will meet her this week-end! The breeder initially wanted some money for her, but after we met the breeder in person, she said she would give Kaylee to us if we would allow her to breed Kaylee one more time. (She has had one litter.)
I am a wee bit nervous about it for some reason. I'm not sure why. I can't tell if it's because my grief over Buster is still so fresh, whether I am frightened to get hurt again, or whether I don't have enough info.

I wanted to ask the opinion of other breeders out there. What do you think about the fact she is willing to give her to us if we allow her to breed her one more time? Knowing nothing about the breeding process, are there dangers we need to worry about? Is their special care of a pregnant dog? What about postpartem? Are their risks or special extra care? I will ask the breeder all these questions as well when we go out to see her this week-end, but I wanted to get the opinion of some people who aren't invested in the situation.

Kaylee sounds wonderful and she does need a home. And we did want to adopt an older dog who needed a home. It just feels funny to know we will take this girl home as our family pet, then she will have to go back to the breeder to whelp and take care of her puppies for awhile. I don't know, I'm very naive on all the breeding aspects. Is it hard on the females to breed? Do they "enjoy" it or are they just being used as a "puppy factory?"

I appreciate your feedback and I'll keep you posted...We are supposed to meet her this coming week-end.

PS This breeder has some beautiful dogs, with health testing generations back.
Thanks everyone!

 

[SammynDqtz]

First let me say I am not a breeder. But will give you my 2 cents. Has Kaylee herself been through all the proper health tests? Has her conformation to the written breed standard been proven in showing or such?? I am sure there are always the chance of something not going right when a bitch is whelping a litter. I'd have a good vet near by and on call when the birth is getting close... sometimes c-secs. are needed. You'll need the vet to be on call. I suppose that if this litter will be her second and her last, that she is not a puppy factory... as long as the breeder is truly doing this to better the breed and not make money or anything. I can see how you may be nervous... I probably would be too. If you decide against getting Kaylee, maybe you could get a boxer from a rescue or something. Best wishes to you. And good luck. Please keep us posted. oh and (if you get Kaylee)... Just be sure to talk over every little detail with the breeder before signing on the dotted line.
BTW, I am very very sorry to hear about your loss. :(

 

[LeedsDevil]

Ask lots of questions about the breeders health testing, showing experiance and who will be responsible for the breeding and whelping costs. If you decide to do this make sure you have something written out explaining your responsabilities and thiers.You must be comfortable with all aspects of the contract.

If she has had 1 litter allready, has passed her own health testing and has been shown or at least been evaluated and meets the standerd then I would not think 1 more litter would be a bad idea.

Don't be afraid to talk to the breeder about your concerns. A "Responsible" breeder will be gratefull for your concern and encourage this. Since she has allready proven that she can and does take dogs back you may have gotten lucky and found a great breeder who will be there for the life of the dog, no matter what.

Let us know what you decide, and good luck!

Jennifer & Cookie

 

[Joan I.]

Thanks for your replies!
Just an update for you. Based on your advice, I contacted the breeder, and she checked out really well. Kaylee has been fully health tested, and shown as well. She is not a champion yet, she has 4 points so far whatever that means. The breeder wants to show her again at the end of Feb. I guess the home she was in before was showing her, but when their marriage fell apart, they understandably quit the show circuit.
I also spoke to two other breeders in Alberta, who confirmed that this breeder is in good standing with the Alberta Kennel Club, and The Alberta Boxer Club, and that she has a good reputation.
The breeder also told me that she breeds her bitches only twice, and the puppies are raised and socialized in her home, and only go out to homes she carefully choses.
She said she would be covering all the expences pre and post partem. It's all going to be in a contract before we take Kaylee home. She encouraged me to call her anytime I had questions, and said she would take Kaylee back if something didn't work out.
So I think I trust her now. One of the other breeders I spoke with said that what this breeder is offering me, (we can take the dog if we let her breed her one more time,) is a fair arrangement as long as all the details of the breeding part are clear.
So I am now much more excited about meeting this girl! I am very glad I posted messages on this forum, and theboxer ring forum as well, because the generous feedback from everyone gave me the right questions to ask before we went on with this adoption. It has been a real education in ethical breeding and buying of boxers for me; I wish everyone knew all this before they bought a boxer. I certainly didn't when I bought my first two.
Thanks again everyone, and I'll keep you posted as to what happens when we meet Kaylee!

 

[LeedsDevil]

That is wonderfull! I am very glad that the suggestions here helped you and even more pleased that you got the right responses! It can be difficult finding a responsible and ethical breeder.

Please let us know how it all turns out and we of course all want pictures ASAP!!!

Jennifer & Cookie

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

Let me add to this as someone who considers herself a responsible breeder. I have also had dogs returned to me due to Divorce.

Folks, the LAST thing a breeder should be concerned with is getting yet another litter out of their poor bitch that was just dumped out of her original home, back to the breeder's home and now to a new home. I am sorry but I just don't support that at all.

I had a lovely show male that I had neutered because the owners went through a divorce and the wife chose to keep the Boxer along with getting custody of her son. She was not going to be able to continue showing him. I had him neutered, much to her relief.

I am sorry but I honestly don't see this as a good situation. My suggestion, for what it is worth, is to NOT agree to breed this girl. Instead, offer to spay her and give her a life long loving home. If the breeder does not agree with that, then walk away. There are so many other Boxers out there that need love.

I am hoping this breeder will do what is best for the poor unfortunate bitch that has lost her home. The last thing she needs is to whelp yet another litter of Boxer puppies and be put at risk. The risks during whelping are great. Is it worth it?

In my opinion, NO.


Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets

 

[Joan I.]

Hi again:
Well that last post sure put a different spin on things for me. As I read it my heart just sank and I am close to tears. I guess it's because even though I haven't even met Kaylee, I have heard so much about her that I almost feel like I love her already, (we are due to meet tomorrow.) The thought of her ordeal losing her home and now with the slant on the risks of the breeding, I feel so bad for her! Not understanding the entire scope of what putting a dog through a breeding might entail, I was unaware of the risks and stress on the dog. I don't want to be a part of any animal's suffering that's for sure. But I also don't want to turn my back on her, because I know she needs a good home. Yes, there are other dogs out there who also need homes, but what about Kaylee? At least I know I can give her a loving place to be before and after the breeding ordeal. I feel so torn now...

Perhaps when we go to see her tomorrow, I could suggest the option to the breeder of an offer to spay Kaylee, and see what she says. I guess she could make the decision to just keep her and breed her then see if she can find another home for her...That's her choice, Kaylee is her dog now. Or maybe I should discuss this with her on the phone, BEFORE I meet Kaylee. After I see Kaylee, I'll be sunk, I know that. I could offer her some money for the dog?? I don't know...

You think she should just give us the dog, at no charge, is that your opinion? Is that what you would do? What would you consider fair if she was your dog? I am asking this with genuine respect, not in any snotty way. (Hard to convery actual "tone" on the internet sometimes...)

I do feel upset about this now. I just got all the dog beds out for washing. I certainly don't want in any way to be part of anything that is going to be cruel to this girl-she has gone through enough. Maybe the reason why I feel so upset is that I felt nervous about this from the start, because I was indeed worried about the risks and the stress to Kaylee of breeding her, considering she lost her home. When I read your post it just went straight into my heart, and my initial source of concern.

Even though your post threw me for a loop, I am grateful that you took the time to write it. I want to be completely aware of all the sides before I meet this girl.
Thanks again, and any further advice would be deeply appreciated.

Joni

 

[SammynDqtz]

I don't know if I can offer any additional advice for you now.... one of the great boxer breeders here may be able to though... but I must say, it's really wonderful to see you are wanting to do all the research you can before you commit. It shows you care and are concerned about Kaylee and the whole situation. Good luck whatver you decide. Please keep us posted.

 

[PawPrintBoxers]

Originally posted by Joan I.
Or maybe I should discuss this with her on the phone, BEFORE I meet Kaylee. After I see Kaylee, I'll be sunk, I know that. I could offer her some money for the dog?? I don't know...

Of course my intent was not to upset you, but I really would rather be honest. Every breeder is different and this is my honest opinion.

Yes, I think working it out on the phone is a good idea. In my opinion, if she is just looking for a quality home for Kaylee, she will agree to not breeding her again. Think about what is good for Kaylee. Poor thing has already lost her family and has already given that breeder a litter of Boxer pups. She did her job for the breeder. Now she should enjoy a new loving forever home.

Yes, breeding is a heartache. You are new, so please go to the Breeding section of this board and read a couple of the stories that have been permanently displayed. The risks can be great up to and including death for the mother. Not to mention simply raising a litter of Boxer puppies for 8 weeks and all that can happen.

What is best for Kaylee should be the #1 consideration.


Christina Ghimenti
PawPrint Boxers

Sunny Northern California
Boxer Champions and Loving Pets

 

[Joan I.]

Yes Christina, I know you are right. And beyond what is best for Kaylee, there is myself and my family to consider as well. We have just gone through the devastating loss of both of our family boxers within the last 4 months. Once we take Kaylee in, it will only be another 3 months before she goes off to the breeder for many weeks. I honestly think my heart would be smashed beyond belief if something was to happen and I were to lose another dog at this time. And what about Kaylee: her third home, she just gets trust and confidence that we aren't going to turn around and desert her, then she's back to the breeder again. What's that going to do to her sense of saftey with us? I do very much want to keep her in her home, with us.

I am going to call the breeder today, offer to spay Kaylee and give her a good home, and see what the breeder has to say. Do you think I should offer her any money, or wait to see what she has to say? As a breeder, would you be insulted if someone inferred they wanted to have one of your dogs for no payment? I don't want to be offensive, and I have no idea of the protocol here. Money is also a bit tight for us; we are on a single income with kids.
However, having a dog costs lots of cash, and I am not naiive about that. We are willing to pay for our dog, but what do you think is fair? She is 3 years old at this point.

I know I need to hammer this out with the breeder, and I will, but having this outside input has proven EXTREMELY valuable so far.

Thanks again for your caring, and I look forward to your reply.

Joni
I haven't checked out the breeding board yet, but that is my next step.