I am a first time Boxer owner of Max a male fawn 9 months old. My question goes out to anyone who is a breeder and anyone who has exprienced Demodex Mange. At 6 months old my beloved Max was diagnosed with Demodex, I contacted the breeder to find out if the mom or dad had this problem. The breeder started to tell me that a few dogs in Max's litter had the Demodex also and that his dog had localized Demodex. My first question to the breeders out there is, are the breeders responsible for hereditary problems? If so, then am I out of line to ask for my money back? My last question is that if anyone has expirenced Demodex has your dog made a full recovery?
Mange
- Thread starter LMS
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When I got Rocky at 7 months, he had what the vet called 'stress-induced' mange on his face. I think that was the Demodex. His previous owner had it treated twice, but it came back. Rocky was kept in a crate too much and was bored to death! I treated it with the dip given me by the vet, gave him LOTS of exercise and love, and it has not come back. The vet did tell me not to breed him(which I didn't intend to anyway), as the tendency is hereditary.
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Anne M
Bradenton, FL
Rocky(Rockwell WiggleButt) light brindled male, born 8/99
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Anne M
Bradenton, FL
Rocky(Rockwell WiggleButt) light brindled male, born 8/99
Marimat
Boxer Expert<br><img src="/forums/images/modpaw.gi
Hello LMS and board
I will answer this from both aspescts, as a breeder and as someone who has experienced demo in dogs.
>>My first question to the breeders out >>there is, are the breeders responsible for >>hereditary problems?
Yes and no is the answer to this. When there are known genetic problems with available screening to aid in the elimination or at the very least minimising of a given genetic disorder/s then the breeder is indeed responsible to do everything in their power to avoid such problems.
One of the most basic tenets in breeding, amongst purists and responsible breeders is that one should only breed to improve the quality of whatever chosen breed. To NOT test for known genetic ailments would hardly be seen as breeding to improve as far as this little black duck is concerned.
Onto specifics though. Demodectic mange, in and of itself is NOT a genetic disorder. The demodex mange mite is in fact a part of the normal flora of a dogs skin i.e. all dogs have demodex on them. Your vet should of explained this to you.
In small colonies this mite is in fact harmless to the dog however when depressed immune system, whether due to disease, stress, injury or the like, is what allows the mites to proliferate. When they do start to grow in great numbers that is when problems with hair loss and secondary skin lesions occur.
So why then is the answer both yes and no?
Because a breeder may have control of some factors causing depressed immunity but have no say at all in other factors. One of the commonest causes of a depressed immunity in dogs is Canine Hypothyroidism. This is indeed a genetic disorder and one which can be screened for. Affected stock should not be bred from. This would be irresponsible.
But once a puppy is away from it's birth home a whole new lot of stressors can come into play which a breeder has no control of. Change of diet, overpowering children, missing littermates and momma, being a "yard dog" (very common), are some stressors that can cause unseen illness i.e. low immunity in a dog. In fact most times demodex rears it's head are in a puppies formative months.
>>If so, then am I out of line to ask for my >>money back?
That's a judgement call unfortunately. You can try and I know that if I couldn't get your pup cleared up for you then I'd refund your money. But not all are the same and in fact not all will see you as being entitled to a refund. It all depends on the factors which led to Max getting mange and why those breeders are breeding in the first place.
>>My last question is that if anyone has >>expirenced Demodex has your dog made a >>full recovery?
Yes on more than one occasion. It just depends, once again, on recognising the causitive factors of the mange outbreak. If it is stress related, most of the anti mange rinses coupled with removing the relevant stressor will work and the puppy/dog will fully recover as it settles. (It must be said now that dogs with mange from stress induced low immunity need not be excluded from breeding!)
Even if your puppy (anyone's puppy) has inherited Canine Hypothyroidism this is treatable through dosing with Oroxine or a similar thyroid hormone replacement. (These are the ones which must not be bred from!!)
It's not an easy issue and it is often poorly understood. But rest assured, mange mites on a dog ARE normal, in small colonies. It is not hereditary for them to be there. All dogs have them. It's the way they come to propogate that is relevant
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Matthew Cowley
Bocsirs & Marimat Boxers
matthew@bocsirs.com
ICQ 625778
I will answer this from both aspescts, as a breeder and as someone who has experienced demo in dogs.
>>My first question to the breeders out >>there is, are the breeders responsible for >>hereditary problems?
Yes and no is the answer to this. When there are known genetic problems with available screening to aid in the elimination or at the very least minimising of a given genetic disorder/s then the breeder is indeed responsible to do everything in their power to avoid such problems.
One of the most basic tenets in breeding, amongst purists and responsible breeders is that one should only breed to improve the quality of whatever chosen breed. To NOT test for known genetic ailments would hardly be seen as breeding to improve as far as this little black duck is concerned.
Onto specifics though. Demodectic mange, in and of itself is NOT a genetic disorder. The demodex mange mite is in fact a part of the normal flora of a dogs skin i.e. all dogs have demodex on them. Your vet should of explained this to you.
In small colonies this mite is in fact harmless to the dog however when depressed immune system, whether due to disease, stress, injury or the like, is what allows the mites to proliferate. When they do start to grow in great numbers that is when problems with hair loss and secondary skin lesions occur.
So why then is the answer both yes and no?
Because a breeder may have control of some factors causing depressed immunity but have no say at all in other factors. One of the commonest causes of a depressed immunity in dogs is Canine Hypothyroidism. This is indeed a genetic disorder and one which can be screened for. Affected stock should not be bred from. This would be irresponsible.
But once a puppy is away from it's birth home a whole new lot of stressors can come into play which a breeder has no control of. Change of diet, overpowering children, missing littermates and momma, being a "yard dog" (very common), are some stressors that can cause unseen illness i.e. low immunity in a dog. In fact most times demodex rears it's head are in a puppies formative months.
>>If so, then am I out of line to ask for my >>money back?
That's a judgement call unfortunately. You can try and I know that if I couldn't get your pup cleared up for you then I'd refund your money. But not all are the same and in fact not all will see you as being entitled to a refund. It all depends on the factors which led to Max getting mange and why those breeders are breeding in the first place.
>>My last question is that if anyone has >>expirenced Demodex has your dog made a >>full recovery?
Yes on more than one occasion. It just depends, once again, on recognising the causitive factors of the mange outbreak. If it is stress related, most of the anti mange rinses coupled with removing the relevant stressor will work and the puppy/dog will fully recover as it settles. (It must be said now that dogs with mange from stress induced low immunity need not be excluded from breeding!)
Even if your puppy (anyone's puppy) has inherited Canine Hypothyroidism this is treatable through dosing with Oroxine or a similar thyroid hormone replacement. (These are the ones which must not be bred from!!)
It's not an easy issue and it is often poorly understood. But rest assured, mange mites on a dog ARE normal, in small colonies. It is not hereditary for them to be there. All dogs have them. It's the way they come to propogate that is relevant
------------------
Matthew Cowley
Bocsirs & Marimat Boxers
matthew@bocsirs.com
ICQ 625778
We got our boxer Max and he got Mange shortly after. We got him from a breeder and when called him and told him of this he said none of the other dogs in the litter nor the parents had it. We were told by our vet that our boxer just has a low immune system (he's a white boxer). The breeder refused to give any of our money back. If he is a reputable breeder he may offer something but ours didn't. I don't know how sick your boxer is but Max almost had to be put down because of it. He lost all of his fur and had sores all over him. When he sould scratch himself he would start bleeding. After a couple thousand in vet bills, IV treatments and dips, he is fully recovered and has been for 2 years. The vet had never seen a case so bad. One great tip that I have for you as far as treatment is mix some "Missing Link" into their food everyday. That was ultimately what cured Max and what has kept him well. It can be bought in the pet stores and it is supposed to increase their immune system - I recommend it to anyone with this problem.
Jenn thank you for the suggestion, I will try and find the mix you mentioned. My Max also developed sores and would bleed all over the house. He ended up having surgery to remove two swollen lymph nodes on his neck the size of walnuts. The vet said it was because his body was trying to fight off the mites. The breeder has not answered any of my letter, but as soon as Max makes a full recovery I will be taking action. The breeders female has localized demodex and they are still going to breed her. I can't bare the thought of someone else going through what I have (you also)I hope your Max's immune system stays healthy, I know how emotional it can be.
I was told last year that my Boxer had alopecia, not mange, when she had a bald spot. He suggested Vitamin E and melatonin, because I don't like antibiotics or steroids. It took a month, but she has been fine since. I get her vitamins at the vitamin store when I get mine. My fist Boxer had mange as a puppy, went for dips every day, almost died and lived to be 14 with no other problems.So it is not the end of the earth anymore.
Sadie had this problem. When the vet told me it was mange, I about fell out. I told the vet that I take great care of her, how could this happen? She said when we think of mange we think of dogs that have been neglected. She said it is very common for this happen. All dogs have these mites. I ended up dipping her once a week for four weeks with some dip for the mange. After the third dip you could tell it was working. She made a full recovery and is a very happy dog. Her mange was not that bad. She had about 4 spots about the size of nickel or a quarter and one on the side of her face that was a little bigger than the rest. Just do what the vet recomends and you should have a happy boxer.
Cindy and Lacie.
Guest
I have not had any problems with this, but I did see pictures of a whole litter of pups that came into a rescue bald and bleeding. It broke my heart, but the wonderful lady got these puppies healthy again and they all found wonderful homes. I wish you luck with this problem and I hope that some of these post have helped you out. I think that Bocsirs reply was one of the best I have seen on theis subject.
Julie Davis
Boxer Insane
Boomer had demodex also. It appeared at around 17 weeks old. The vet dipped him in Mitoban three times, spaced two weeks apart. He may not have needed the third dip, but we did it as a precaution. Some dogs need as much as 6 dips to clear it up. My vet is very reasonable, and the dips only cost $30 each (including office visit fee). When I told my breeder, he agreed to refund $50 to me. 
Boomer recovered quickly, and has a beautiful coat. Best of luck to you, and I hope everything works out.
Boomer recovered quickly, and has a beautiful coat. Best of luck to you, and I hope everything works out.I found out today that my Dakota has demodex
Hello,
I don't know to much about this problem, but I found out today that our 18 week old Dakota has the demodex and our vet gave us a antibiotic and some cream to rub on the thin hair spots. I hope we can clear this problem up. The only thing that concerns me is her mother's milk didn't come down so mabye that has contributed to the low immune system, I am open to suggestions thanks
Hello,
I don't know to much about this problem, but I found out today that our 18 week old Dakota has the demodex and our vet gave us a antibiotic and some cream to rub on the thin hair spots. I hope we can clear this problem up. The only thing that concerns me is her mother's milk didn't come down so mabye that has contributed to the low immune system, I am open to suggestions thanks
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