I am confused!

[JazznChase]

Okay I hav eo tbe honest I don't know much about BARF! I guess what I dont understand is: It is OK to give your dog a raw Chicken bone? For instance a raw chicken leg? Do you let them eat just the meat off or do they eat/swallow the bone too? Is that safe and ok for them? They said raw hide bones are not good because it can get caught in their throat? What about "real" chicked or beef bones?

 

[JulieM]

Raw bones are great for dogs! Chicken legs are OK occasionally if your dogs are on a raw diet, but I wouldn't give them if they aren't eating primarily raw. They are weight-bearing bones and so are more "solid" or "dense" than other bones, and they don't have the correct meat-to-bone ratio which can throw off the calcium/phosphorus ratio. Chicken wings are actually also considered weight-bearing bones, surprisingly, although they're not as dense as legs. Chicken backs and necks are the typical BARF mainstays (in the US, at least) because they have an almost ideal meat-to-bone ratio, they're softer bones, and they're inexpensive.

You do let them eat the whole thing. It is safe for them (as far as anything they eat is safe - there is a risk anytime anyone puts something in their mouth, but if we say that steak is safe for humans, raw bones are safe for dogs ) The first few times you might want to hold it for them, so that they learn to chew (most kibble-fed dogs don't chew their kibble - it's too small - they just swallow mouthfuls whole). After that, they crunch away!

Rawhide bones pose the same choking risk as anything. There have also been problems with some of them that contained (I think) formaldehyde. Also, I think rawhide can either swell in the stomach or lump together (not sure where I heard that, it's just in the back of my head....someone correct me if that's not right.)

Beef bones are typically harder, and are usually given as "recreational" bones - meaning there's not a lot of meat on them, but the dog does some really good chewing (great if you need them to be quiet for any length of time!). Chewing is great exercise for dogs - it works more than just their mouths! One thing about feeding raw is that you want to have the bones big enough so that they have to chew them - there have been a couple of cases of dogs choking on turkey necks that were cut into bite-sized pieces. The dogs tried to swallow them whole and they lodged in the throat :( A whole turkey neck wouldn't post that problem (well, maybe in a Dane or a Deerhound....) A couple of my guys swallow chicken wings whole, actually, but they have learned to crunch them in the right spots so that they slide right down the throat.

More than you probably wanted to know but if you'd like to learn more, check out these sites:

http://www.njboxers.com Top 50 New BARFer FAQ's
http://www.barfers.com - also has a link to the BARF webring, which is great to surf and see how others are feeding
http://www.caberfeidh.com
http://www.drianbillinghurst.com

I also have book recommendations, but I'll save those unless you really want them!

Julie

 

[JazznChase]

Thanks for all the great info. I will check out the web sites. One more question. If I am NOT feeding BARF. Is it ok to feed them a raw chicken wing or neck once in a while?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JulieM]

It is OK, I'd tend to go with necks because they're easier to digest (mostly cartilage). If you add a digestive enzyme the first few times wings should be OK.

Julie

(PS - there was just a post on this forum about neck bones you might want to check out, too )

 

[sarakrepp]

Bones are dangerous!!!!

Hi! I am new to the boxer forum! This is really a great place to chat! Anyway I just wanted to give my personal opinion about feeding dogs real bones. I have worked in my fathers veterinary clinic for over ten years and I have seen many dogs die and or have serious problems from eating bones. The chicken bones especially can splinter and get lodged in the stomach. I realize a lot of people do feed them and have no problems, but it should be recognized that most veterinarians stongly suggest no type of bones ever be fed to dogs. It is dangerous and most of all not necessary. I'm not trying to debate anyone just giving my opinion based on my experience!

 

[Eddie's mom]

Re: Bones are dangerous!!!!

Originally posted by sarakrepp
Hi! I am new to the boxer forum! This is really a great place to chat! Anyway I just wanted to give my personal opinion about feeding dogs real bones. I have worked in my fathers veterinary clinic for over ten years and I have seen many dogs die and or have serious problems from eating bones. The chicken bones especially can splinter and get lodged in the stomach. I realize a lot of people do feed them and have no problems, but it should be recognized that most veterinarians stongly suggest no type of bones ever be fed to dogs. It is dangerous and most of all not necessary. I'm not trying to debate anyone just giving my opinion based on my experience!

Is this the case with raw bones? I too always thought bones were bad so my Eddie has never had a bone, but I have learned on here it is ok as long as they are raw. So now what!

 

[Jan]

It is usually cooked bones that cause the problems. Raw bones are safe most of the time. IMHO More problems are caused by eating kibble than by eating raw bones. Do you know that most kibble(there are exceptions) is made from meat that has been made unfit for human consumption. Do you really want your dog eating that?

 

[Krikkit]

Cooked bones are extremely dangerous to dogs. Many years ago the dog next door to where we used to live nearly died as he was given cooked bones frequently :(

RAW bones on the other hand are an excellent food for dogs It must be different here with regards to vets as most Aussie vets will recommend the feeding of raw bones. Our vet runs a puppy pre-school and one of the handouts is all about the benefits of giving a dog raw bones but does warn agaist cooked bones.

If anyone is concerned about raw bones get your butcher to mince (grind) them up and only give the very large raw recreational bones whole. If you are gong to have severe stress over feeding raw bones / meat, even after research, then perhaps it is better not to do it at all - and remember not to feed cooked bones either. I have severe stress over feeding commercial foods which is why our dogs are on a BARF diet. We can only feed what we are comfortable with, that is human nature.

There are some notes on cooked vrs raw bones here http://www.barfers.com/billinghurstlecture.html

There are pictures of what we feed our Boxers here
http://www.agilityboxer.com/barfpage.htm

The sites Julie listed have some good info and there are many books availabe about feeding dogs if anyone wants to investigate a natrual diet further

Sharon

 

[JulieM]

Yes, cooked bones are much more dangerous than raw, and cooked chicken bones do splinter easily. I have to disagree about raw chicken bones splintering, though, as I have cut them up and they are very soft and cut cleanly.

Some dogs do have problems with raw bones, but they are the exception. A lot of the problems are caused when owners feed their dogs raw bones and kibble with no idea of what they're doing or why - which is why so many people who feed raw recommend doing lots of research first. If you give a kibble-fed dog a whole raw chicken leg, you very well may have problems. A dog who has been eating raw and is accustomed to digesting bones would not have as much of a problem with a leg.

As for most vets in the US not recommending bones (as a contradiction to the vets in Australia) - most vets in the US have *at most* one semester of animal nutrition, which is paid for and sponsored by the pet food manufactureres. Not surprising that they are taught a raw diet is "bad" and a "nutritionally balanced and complete" kibble is "good."

Something to think about - if someone came out with a cereal for humans that was "nutritionally balanced and complete," would *you* eat that cereal as your only food every day for the rest of your life? Let me know, because if you would, I will certainly look into developing such a product - it would be a goldmine!