How to encourage paws on floor

[JWalkyTalky]

Hiya,

First post on here so bare with me! I have a 12 week old male pup Vinny who is very good at settling into a calm sit to greet people after his initial stump wiggles and kidney beaning. The same can't be said for greeting other dogs!

Our first puppy class consisted of him behaving unexpectedly well for me given the distractions and yet as soon as he was allowed to sniff the other pups it was impossible to lure him away with food as of course, food doesn't matter when play is the alternative.

The problem is that not all of the puppies there (or dogs he will meet in future) want to play, especially how he plays (paws first). The trainer present said I should encourage him to keep all paws on the ground and play more like a 'dog' than a Boxer. I have to say that when I asked her how... She had no real response. I wonder if anyone has any tips on encouraging paws on the floor for greeting other dogs? We already discourage jumping up with people by rewarding his calm behaviour and this works great but he tends to put his feet straight on other dogs, even on their faces! Not polite at all and I'm concerned it will get him in trouble and want to teach him to be respectful when meeting other dogs.

Any tips? Sorry for the essay!!

 

[daisyandduke]

Good luck with that. I have success with them not jumping on people and keeping their paws on the floor with them, but with other dogs...it is more of a challenge for sure. Boxers are very playful and rowdy by nature and playing with their paws is instinctive to them. Not saying that this cannot be trained, but it may be difficult through the puppy stage. I give Duke and Daisy "nice hello" command and praise when they sniff and "say hello" nicely. When their ears perk up and when they get into what I call "hunting stance" ... this is when they stand very still and sniff and I can tell they are about to "pounce" play, I right away tap them on the head and say "watch me" or pull them away and give them the "nice hello" command again. The key is to be attentive to their stances and know them.

Daisy and Duke play very rough and love to pounce on each other and "box" each other, in addition to snarling and growling. I understand your concern because other breeds may not understand or take the Boxer play well. But other Boxers play well with other Boxers for sure ...they understand each other. The key is consistency and paying attention to the mannerisms and be aware of a change in stance or behavior. The "watch me" command is very helpful and patience is KEY.

Daisy and Duke have definitely calmed down a bit, but as younger puppies...oh boy, getting distracted was the name of the game....everything, everyone, every dog is a new "adventure" for them. Sometimes that curiosity can get them into trouble....but that curiosity is what makes them such fun dogs. Hope this helps. Good luck! It does get better.

 

[JWalkyTalky]

Thank you so much for the reply, makes joining the forum worth while to just get an insight from another boxer owner!

It's good to know that "watch me" can help, as I have started trying this with Vinny and he responds well to eye contact. I know that it's their instinct and I love how they play, I just want to make it as easy for him to play with other dogs as possible. We're going to play with a polite young female boxer tomorrow, hopefully he'll learn a thing or two from her.

What sort or age were Daisy and Duke when they became more responsive to your distraction from their pounce stance? It's definitely something I can work on now that I have a Starting point. If you think of any other suggestions I'd be really grateful.

Thanks again!

 

[LILYLARUE]

I'm a little confuzzled.......unteach a natural trait in a dog? LOL Yeah, good luck. It would be like trying to untrain pointing in a pointer, or getting a terrier to stop digging, or a dobie to stop guarding.......Boxer's box! That's what they do! It's a natural, instinctual act of this breed. Yes, some do it more than others. Some are thwarted by another dog's indication of discomfort. But to try to unteach a boxer to not do it all the time is just ridiculous!

The trainer should be teaching you instead :

How to have your dog calmly approach other dogs.

How to wait for a play indicator from the other dog.

How to stay calm. LOL Boxer's don't seem to be able to do this until they are 2-5 yrs old, some never! LOL

How to approach other dogs politely.

Teaching a dog a different behavior than what they will naturally perform is soooo much easier than trying to unteach a natural behavior. I would definitely question the credentials and knowledge of this trainer. Maybe just not enough experience with the boxer breed? Maybe just not enough knowledge on breeds and their natural behaviors and how to redirect to acceptable behaviors.

But to instruct a student on untraining a natural behavior, and then not giving any tools or instruction on just how to acheive that, well, not a good trainer in my book. I would heed any further training instructions and decipher what I would think is common sense and what the trainer is throwing out to the class without any experience on success of that tool. I know some really good book smart trainers but in practice they are useless!

Boxer's box. That's for sure. Some more than others, but they do box in play mode. This is one reason that many boxer's do not get to enjoy dog parks or play groups. Their play style is often unpleasant to some other breeds. BUT boxers do have a tendancy to play very well with other breeds and with great success. Pit bull breeds play very well since they are "rough players" too and they don't take things personally or hold on to grudges. Other bully breeds are great boxer budies......bostons, frenchies, etc.

 

[Cami]

Pit bull breeds play very well since they are "rough players" too and they don't take things personally or hold on to grudges. Other bully breeds are great boxer budies......bostons, frenchies, etc.

Very true! Other breeds seem to adapt to a Boxer's style of play as well. Labs, Golden's, Vizsla's even Standard Poodles. Dogs that are "sturdier" and playful which can handle Boxers over the top play style.
I taught my first girl "little dog down". Anytime she was nearing a smaller dog she knew to get on her belly and wait for them. She wasn't laying down per say but was lower and closer to their level. Once the initial greet took place she was okay to stand up fully. Raine is learning this as well and it was more of her decision than it was mine. Once she starts I add the words to it.
By being down they can't as easily toss up a paw to the other dogs head!
I watch the other dogs body and face to see if their expressions/movement welcome being boxed. Some don't and give off signals which Raine understands and she adapts to them. Others don't mind and playing gets underway.

 

[JWalkyTalky]

But to try to unteach a boxer to not do it all the time is just ridiculous!

The trainer should be teaching you instead :

How to have your dog calmly approach other dogs.

How to wait for a play indicator from the other dog.

I have to say that I completely agree it seems unnatural, it's like asking him not to wiggle his stump when he greets me. It's difficult because I hear conflicting advice from various sources on everything to do with his diet, training and all things in between. There are a couple of things which were said which I was a bit sceptical about during the session but I guess there's a tendency to TRY and accept the advice of a 'professional' above my gut feeling until I am more experienced as an owner. hearin my doubts validated kind of takes me back to the confused stage ! I figured if nothing else, it's a great opportunity to meet with other dogs in a relatively 'controlled' environment.

I have a second session this evening so will ask for advice on teaching Vinny play indicators and calm approaches, I'll be interested to see what she suggests. If you have any experiences on this yourself it would be great to know but either way thanks for your input, it's certainly appreciated!

 

[daisyandduke]

What sort or age were Daisy and Duke when they became more responsive to your distraction from their pounce stance? It's definitely something I can work on now that I have a Starting point. If you think of any other suggestions I'd be really grateful.

Thanks again!

Just so you know...they still do it, just a little less infrequently. LOL! And they are a year old and a lot bigger! I would say they became more responsive by about 4 - 5 months old. I also trained them to respond to the "manners" command and they know to approach nicely. Duke is more of the gentle one....Daisy, she is a little more on the "rowdy" and stubborn. I am not so worried about them being aggressive towards other dogs....I get concerned about other dogs misunderstanding them.

 

[LILYLARUE]

The trainer should, and I say should, be able to teach you the play indicators that dogs present when in play mode meeting other dogs.

The biggest one is the play bow where the dog lays his front end on the ground, butt up. This lets the other dog know he is no threat and ready to proceed to playing.

A wiggling boxer butt and open mouth with a floppy tongue hanging out is surely another in this particular breed. Other breeds may present the play indicators in other ways. Like yorkies tend to bounce around the other dog, trying to get excitement up. Pit bulls tend to body slam, an annoying behavior, but usually successful if not to only annoy the other dog into play or game of chase. Dobies tend to run close and then retreat, repeating until the other dog finally gives in to a game of chase. So each breed has their ways of initiating play. Boxer's tend to be "in your face" and boxing to get the play started, sometimes with negative results. LOL I can understand that.

Ask your trainer to work on "calm" and "sit-stay". While working with another dog approaching at a distance, keep your eye on your pup and have him "sit-stay". Treat to keep his attention. Rapid fire treats if you have too. As soon as your pup lifts his butt up, the other dog is then immediately walked away (10 ft should be plenty). Then get pup back into a sit-stay and repeat the approach of the other dog. Again, butt goes up, then other pup goes away. With 20-30 min sessions every day or other day, your pup will understand that if he stays in his sit, the dog will come to him. If he doesn't stay in a sit, then he will not meet the other dog.

Once you can get them to meet. Your pup will most likely begin his excitement stage where physical contact to initiate play will appear. Again, he must remain calm. If a paw goes up to box, then redirect with a stern "Ah-Ah" and then walk him away 10 or so feet. Begin with the sit-stay and have the other dog approach again, requesting your pup to "stay calm", by being in a sit-stay. Praise him for "good sit-stay". And allow the pups to begin initiation again. The first sign of a paw lift, "Ah-Ah" and walk him away. Eventually he will learn not to paw the other dog. BUT don't expect once the full play session begins that paws will not be used to box. Not a big deal, as by this time the other dog is comfortable with his new play buddy and will accept that behavior as play. To allow the boxer to paw prior to the other dog's comfort level, may cause a scuffle as it's not a nice way to say hello.

This will take lots of patience, and time on your part. If you find yourself getting flustered cause he doesn't seem to make any progress the first few times.......stop the session and begin again another day. Boxer's aren't dumb dogs by any means. He will probably one day, all of a sudden, "get it" and do exactly what you expect of him.

You can also practice this at pet stores, or parks, or anywhere other dogs are leashed up and walking around. Your boxer doesn't NEED to meet every dog, just practicing without another dog actually approaching is a great session as well! Take every opportunity to use a training session. Every dog that you happen by can be a great lesson time.

As for this class you are taking........don't expect too much from this beginner class. It certainly gives you time to build your confidence and to gain as much knowledge about dog behaviors. The more confident you are in your every day handling will help your dog be the best he can be. A confident handler has a confident dog. An insecure handler will typically have a dominant, assertive, and take-charge type of dog OR an insecure, fearful and reactive (if not fear aggressive) dog. So for now, concentrate more on your modeling of confident and on-a-mission behaviors and your dog will follow your lead. A dog will not follow an insecure leader.......even the most insecure dog will step up into an alpha role, no matter how inefficient they are at it.

 

[TwoDogs]

I have found that any impulse control-type training usually helps out those rambunctious players that just overwhelm other dogs with their enthusiasm.

Teaching a dog things like "leave it", "wait", or to "sit/stay" before being released help the dog learn the concept of delayed gratification. This helps the dog learn to control the excitement it feels during introductions and can make for much more socially acceptable play solicitation.

Doing some "rev 'em up & settle 'em down" in play sessions (human-dog) helps teach the dog how to calm themselves down when a play partner give a shut off or distance increasing signal.

Working on building good bite inhibition during human-dog play sessions goes a huge way in teaching the dog that it needs to moderate its own actions in response to the actions of a play partner.

All these are things that the humans work on with the dog. Yes, your dog is going to act differently with dogs vs with humans, but if you can teach him these things with people then you increase the odds that he'll be able to transfer those same play skills to his interaction with other dogs.