Hairy Problems!!

[Khudson]

Hi All,

We've got a 4 month old brindle baby boy- Jackson! He was playing with other dogs during the holidays, after getting home we noticed he had some "bald" spots. We thought it was from playing. Then thought perhaps it was because we can't keep him away from the heat registers (we move him constantly) But now the spots are varied we have some just "bald" spots (around eye, "armpit", and on legs)... he has one on his side that has a red dry look to it and he has one larger area on his belly that has tiny red spots. I'm confused by the variation- so many things going on they don't all resemble mange?


He hasn't had much of an appetite over the past few days, after some research we decided to switch him over to Canidae this weekend when we go shopping - currently he's on Iams Smart Puppy but has terrible gas. Could the food be contributing to the skin problem? Or lack of appetite be from the skin problem?

Have a vet visit Saturday morning would I be a bad mom if we waited until then? He doesn't itch or scratch- they don't seem to bug him.


Any advice would be appreciated SO much! Jackson Says Thank You!!

 

[kayboxer]

Yes, the food could be contributing to the skin problems. If he has allergies the food could be a definate contributing factor. Iams is not a good food. If you go to dogfoodanalysis.com you can research some good foods. It is hard telling what your pup might be allergic to so you might want to start with a food has few meat proteins or grains and go from there. It will probably a process of elimination. Both of my dogs have allergies. I have them on a grain free forumula and am getting ready to try a different one as I am not very happy with the one I am currently using (Taste of the Wild). I will say once I figured out what my oldest was allergic too (grains), her coat improved immensenly along with eye boogers and itching. Good luck on your search!

By the way, mange is usually a bald spot with the skin a darker color in the bald area. My oldest had a horrible case of mange as a pup. :(

 

[gmacleod]

Given his age, demodectic mange would seem a very likely possibility - so I think the best thing is to head for a vet and a skin scrape to confirm or rule that possibility out. Not every case of mange has darkened, reddened or scaly skin (and not many do in the early stages).

Does it appear to itch at all?

 

[Khudson]

He itches, but nothing more than usual. He's pretty quiet today though- we'll see how he is when "dad" gets home usually he perks up! The color variations are so odd some areas just look like hair is "thinning" some it is gone.. and one is so red and dry on his side... he doesn't itch them though. We go to the Vet Saturday Morning for his booster shots I'll have them do a scrape and see what we can figure out. If it is demodectic mange are there treatments to avoid? Preferred treatments??

Meanwhile I'm going to try and keep him away from the heat vents and of course snuggle him like crazy cause I feel like a bad mom!! Thanks everyone.

 

[kayboxer]

Given his age, demodectic mange would seem a very likely possibility - so I think the best thing is to head for a vet and a skin scrape to confirm or rule that possibility out. Not every case of mange has darkened, reddened or scaly skin (and not many do in the early stages).

Does it appear to itch at all?

Gmacleod is right. They don't normally start out dark colored. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead. I remember when I FINALLY got a skin scraping on Roxy, they were darker in the middle, but that is after my first vet said it was allergies and had me try several different shampoos, etc. So by the time we got a second opinion, it has progressed. Also in reading, they usually start out around the eye area, face and forelegs. I also agree with going to the vet, as you have a scheduled appointment so I assumed the vet would do a skin scraping. Symptoms of mange according to one site I have read:

Loss of Hair - localised mange - usually patches around the eyes, muzzle and head
Loss of Hair - generalised mange - usually patches over all of the body
Cracked skin oozing a clear fluid
Red and Scaly Skin
Listlessness
Fever
Loss of Appetite

If it is mange, I would still go to dogfoodanalysis.com and research food. A high quality diet (including raw or homecooked) will help with immunity problems which is what contributes to mange in the first place. Roxy has never had a recurrence of her mange and I contribute that to a high quality diet.

 

[gmacleod]

If it is demodectic mange are there treatments to avoid? Preferred treatments??

IF it is demodectic mange, then what is needed is boosting his immune system function. Puppies are especially vulnerable to demodex (its not also known as "puppy mange" for no reason ) for two main reasons. One is that they're babies and their immune systems are only just developing (you're not born with a fully functional immune system, after all). The second main reason is that puppies' immune systems are assaulted with an enormous range of hits. We deworm them repetitively (that's insecticide). We rehome them (a massive stress). We vaccinate them. We give them rabies shots (that's another HUGE immune system hit). We give them tick a flea treatments. And the poor pup is only a matter of weeks old. Many immune systems just can't cope with all of that and still function well enough to keep things like mites under control as well.

And so, the first key to boosting that immune system is ceasing hitting it with chemicals. Don't schedule surgeries (spay/neuter, for example) until the pup has recovered. And just generally try not to stress the puppy any more than necessary.

The second key is high quality diet. Nutrition is the underpinner of health, you are what you eat, etc. Giving the pup good quality fuel certainly counts in helping him to build up sufficient immune fuction to bring those mites under control. A natural raw diet or homecooking is best, but otherwise the best quality commercial food you can manage. It's important here to remember that demodectic mites are normal - everyone has them, including you and me. It is ONLY when your immune system is not functioning properly that they're a problem and can cause hair loss. So the solution is not a chemical one, but a matter of supporting the immune system to enable it to deal with them. If you take a chemical route, it might kill the mites, but won't help a bit when they repopulate the dog (whose immune system would then be in an even worse state courtesy of the chemicals).

In treatments to avoid - YES, there are some. Some vets will recommend that you head straight for mitaban dips. That is an incredibly toxic substance (you even have to wear gloves) that started life as a pesticide and has actually been removed from the market for about 10 years now. Problem is, it was removed "voluntarily" and many vets still have a stock. But it should not be used, except as an absolute last resort in the case of generalised mange only. The thing with mitaban is that it's a serious poison, and using that is a case of seeing who succumbs first - mites or dog. It is not always the mites.

Treatment of choice remains doing nothing. Nothing except boosting the immune system, that is. More than 90% of dogs are perfectly capable of recovery with no chemical intervention whatsoever, so it makes little sense to reach for substances that will make the underlying problem worse, unless and until all other options have been exhausted.

 

[Khudson]

We all say thank you so much! We'll change the diet... I am leaning towards Canidae its in our budget and seems to be a good food from what I read.He's perked up since dad got home- which is good!

We'll still do a skin scrape at the vet and see if he recommends anything, otherwise I'd prefer to see if it can take a natural choice, like I said he's not itchy/scratchy.

Thank you so so much. Big sloppy kisses to you all from Jackson!

 

[TossBranAbi]

Also, If the scrape shows mange, I would seriously consider not getting his booster shots. If it is mange, his immune system is already low and shots can only make things more ugly. Read up on it and make your own decision and don't let the vet bully you.

 

[Khudson]

Okay, we had our vet visit today. It didn't go super well, he said Jackson has generalized d-mange and of course headed straight for Mitaban Dips, I questioned him several times and he said that beacuse he has it from head to rear he said its a "bad enough" case that it requires it. They happened to be out of it and aren't going to have any until Tuesday so I have until then to make up my mind. Meanwhile Jackson is starting to get pretty itchy & scratchy and I'm pretty unhappy. We're changing food... he LOVES the new food and is finally eating again.

How do I politely decline a treatment? And if I do decline it and he gets worse? Any advice (if you all have more) is appreciated greatly! Thanks!

Also he said Jackson is contageous and cannot be around other dogs, is this true?

 

[Aasha]

Ah poor baby. Aasha to had mange when he was a pup. I agreed to get him dipped before I knew how toxic it was. I then decided not to continue with that treatment. I chose to go with a liquid medication. Has your vet suggested any other treatment then the dips? If not there is a liquid medication also you may be intrested in. It's called Ivomec. This is what I used for Aasha and it worked pretty good. I think he was on the medication for about two weeks. It took about two months for his hair to grow back and be normal. From what I understand once the hair starts falling out the mites have already been there for about two weeks. So you wont see any results right away with any treatment you take because even when all the mites are gone hair can still fall out up to two weeks after that. Just something to keep in mind. Also Aasha had demodex mange. So not sure if the liquid medication I suggested treats the mange your baby has but I guess it's worth asking.