Bullying other dogs in the house

[whiskers]

Picking some brains here! I have a 15 month old Doberman who I've had for 3 weeks. She's turned into quite the bully! She really just focuses on Juno, which I'm assuming is just because Juno WANTS a playmate and will attempt to engage in play, and she's a tolerant saint and never corrects rude behavior (thanks for making my job harder, Juno).

Basically, unless Juno is sleeping, she is constantly being pestered by Cajun (Dobe). They can't be outside together because Cajun is always running into her trying to get her to play. If Juno wants to play with a toy, or run around the yard, she can't because Cajun is RIGHT THERE to interfere - trying to steal the toy from her or chase after her (and she's a complete shark and will bite at Juno's back/legs). Needless to say, we don't let them outside together. Which is a pain.

Off leash exercise has to be completely separate, which honestly is really annoying because I'd like to be able to just bring both of them to the park and not have it be a headache with constantly trying to just keep Cajun away from Juno.

Before we brought Cajun home, both dogs met and played together and one of the biggest selling points was how great they were together! They chased each other but there was no bullying behavior, no rough play or biting, I kept commenting on how NOT obnoxious Cajun was for a young dog! I want them to be able to play together but at the moment I'm really strict with their interactions because it always ends up being unfair play otherwise.

I'm constantly pulling Cajun away, separating them and having Cajun "cool down" for a moment, but I don't see progress and she always goes right back to causing trouble when given the chance. I don't know if I need more time/patience on my part; if Cajun just needs to age and mature; or if there is something other than a timeout that could be beneficial.

At the root of it I think I'm just dealing with a dog who had no dog-dog socialization and really just has no clue how to play appropriately. But I'm not another dog and don't know how to get through to her!

 

[Gunther]

Two or More Dogs

 

[Gunther]

I doubt dog socialization is the issue, my "guest" would be it's a "rank" drive issue and at 15 months the dog is entering the window for problems to occur.

At the very least you should be following the protocols below:


Two or More Dogs
https://suite.io/adrienne-farricelli/2t5h2q5

And if you persist in taking this dog to a Dog Park??? Good luck with that!

Go to the Leerburgh site plenty of info on dealing with Dominate dogs and read "Why Dog Parks are a bad Idea" and what I said won't sound so "radical!" Join the Germanshepard forum or a Dobie site, time is an issue here!

NILF isn't going to cut it if it is or will be a "rank" drive issue...dog wants to improve his position within the pack. Or hire a trainer or a behaviorist that deals with GSD's, likely easier to find?

Or learn stuff the hard way..been there done that...not recommend!

Sorry not real good at being Mr Sunshine!

 

[Jan]

Is Juno bothered by the Dobie's behavior? The sound a bit like Allie and Dante. Dante is so laid back and Allie can be so annoying. She bites at his legs and body slams him when she wants to play. He just ignores her. Juno's situation seems a little worse. Maybe they will work it out.

 

[Jinnytee]

It's a little different I know .... but the scenario you describe is exactly how Luna, when she was about 12- 16 weeks old, tormented my adult lab with boxer lunges, paw batting, nipping at her ears, and tugging at her collar. Bailey was the one of my dogs that loves to play the most and would always initiate play with Luna. My other older dog, was not interested, and made that clear from the get go, and Luna never bothered him. Luna just wanted to play ALL the time, and was a rambunctious, rude puppy, taking no heed at all of Bailey's " I don't want to play signals " .... and just like Juno, Bailey is such a gentle tolerant soul, that she would just take it, and I felt her life was being made a misery. For a while, I did separate them if I was not going to be home, ( to give Bailey a break as much as anything ) .... but I made sure that I kept them together whenever I was home, or else I felt we would never make progress. It was not easy, and took a while, and although time-outs and redirecting played a part, I think in the end it was just my constant intervention and repetition of the " UH UH, Stop that " that finally hit home. I think Luna just gave up being a pest, as she learned it was pointless. Plus she settled down as she grew a bit older. They are now good buddies and do play a lot, but on equal terms, and when Bailey walks away, its game over.

I think, as you said, that you have an excitable, pushy adolescent, who has no manners and hasn't learned to read canine social cues ..... you have your work cut out, but hopefully, once she has been retrained in what is acceptable behavior, she should settle down.

BTW - and this may be opening a can of worms here, .... but the whole pack dominance theory was debunked in 2009 by the most comprehensive canine behavior study ever made,( likened to the degree of in-depth study that has been made on primates ), by the zoology department of The University of Bristol UK, and is pretty much recognised internationally as the go-to study by academics and biologists. However the idea of pack dominance is dying a slow death, as it is continually, and erroneously, perpetuated by the internet, and media. The professor that led the study, John Bradshaw, published a book called" In Defence of Dogs ", which makes a really interesting read, ... especially for those of us who have more than one dog, as it gives some fascinating insights into inter- dog behavior.

 

[whiskers]

I doubt dog socialization is the issue, my "guest" would be it's a "rank" drive issue and at 15 months the dog is entering the window for problems to occur.

At the very least you should be following the protocols below:


Two or More Dogs
https://suite.io/adrienne-farricelli/2t5h2q5

And if you persist in taking this dog to a Dog Park??? Good luck with that!

Go to the Leerburgh site plenty of info on dealing with Dominate dogs and read "Why Dog Parks are a bad Idea" and what I said won't sound so "radical!" Join the Germanshepard forum or a Dobie site, time is an issue here!

NILF isn't going to cut it if it is or will be a "rank" drive issue...dog wants to improve his position within the pack. Or hire a trainer or a behaviorist that deals with GSD's, likely easier to find?

Or learn stuff the hard way..been there done that...not recommend!

Sorry not real good at being Mr Sunshine!

I haven't read the other posts yet but I'm not sure where I ever said I was at a dog park?

I don't think it's going to blow up into a big issue. Pretty confident there is no aggression here.

 

[whiskers]

Is Juno bothered by the Dobie's behavior? The sound a bit like Allie and Dante. Dante is so laid back and Allie can be so annoying. She bites at his legs and body slams him when she wants to play. He just ignores her. Juno's situation seems a little worse. Maybe they will work it out.

She's not a fan of it, no. I think sometimes she just wants to play so bad that she's more okay with it, but sometimes she plain old doesn't even want to be outside if Cajun is out there.

It was not easy, and took a while, and although time-outs and redirecting played a part, I think in the end it was just my constant intervention and repetition of the " UH UH, Stop that " that finally hit home. I think Luna just gave up being a pest, as she learned it was pointless. Plus she settled down as she grew a bit older. They are now good buddies and do play a lot, but on equal terms, and when Bailey walks away, its game over.

Yep this is where we're at right now , lots of time-outs, redirecting her to her toys, "HEY, enough!" whenever she starts in. It's definitely easier to manage indoors (closer quarters) but I bought a 100ft long line so I can more easily employ time-outs when we're outside too. I do really want them to be able to play together!

 

[Jinnytee]

[QUOTEYep this is where we're at right now , lots of time-outs, redirecting her to her toys, "HEY, enough!" whenever she starts in. It's definitely easier to manage indoors (closer quarters) but I bought a 100ft long line so I can more easily employ time-outs when we're outside too. I do really want them to be able to play together![/QUOTE]

Hang in there .... honestly, I felt like I was being driven crazy as some days all I seemed to do was constantly intervene .... over ... and over .... and over I really thought that she was never going to stop being such a nuisance ... then it got better. And once it did get better, it seemed to improve really quickly.

It's quite funny ... as now, Luna will sometimes still have a go ... Bailey will be flaked out on the floor and Luna will dance around her, play bows, come-play noises .... but doesnt actually make any contact .... and Bailey just completely ignores her and I swear she rolls her eyes to heaven ) At times like those a "Uh Uh " is all that's needed from me to stop Luna's antics.

Oh, make sure you dont do what I did and train your dog to start "bothering" in order to get a reward. I thought I was doing a really good job at re-directing by offering Luna a game with me instead .... until I realised that she would make a show of going for the collar and as soon as she saw me making a move, she would run to the toy bag and look at me expectantly. Ha Ha ! .... That's when I realised that Boxers are smart cookies.

 

[Gunther]

I haven't read the other posts yet but I'm not sure where I ever said I was at a dog park?

I don't think it's going to blow up into a big issue. Pretty confident there is no aggression here.

Do read the other post! The Dog Park was an "assumption" on my part,i this is a Boxer Board. A Dobbie is not a Boxer! Pretty sure it's much,much closer to a GSD in temperament,that means something!

I learned the difference the hard way! You would do yourself and your guys a great service if you find a Dobbie Board and talk to those guys!

Just saying.

 

[Gunther]

BTW - and this may be opening a can of worms here, .... but the whole pack dominance theory was debunked in 2009 by the most comprehensive canine behavior study ever made,( likened to the degree of in-depth study that has been made on primates ), by the zoology department of The University of Bristol UK, and is pretty much recognised internationally as the go-to study by academics and biologists. However the idea of pack dominance is dying a slow death, as it is continually, and erroneously, perpetuated by the internet, and media. The professor that led the study, John Bradshaw, published a book called" In Defence of Dogs ", which makes a really interesting read, ... especially for those of us who have more than one dog, as it gives some fascinating insights into inter- dog behavior.

Not really much of a can "here!" These days most folks don't think our dogs are Wolves, don't advocate harsh techniques...Alpha Rolling etc.

Stick with Bully breeds and you won't have to deal with "Rank Drive" issues...so click away! Lots of us don't see Europe (home of" tool" bans) due to ignorant "Guardians" as a forefront for understanding dog behaviour.

Just my 2 cents.