Bailey's a hotty

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Linda

Boxer Insane
I took my two to the dog park last night.
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There were at least 10 dogs there last night.

There was a big, beautiful doberman there that was humping all the dogs, including Remy.
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The owner was doing his best to keep him off, but yelling "no" from across the park doesn't help.

I understand this is a natural dog behavior, but I didn't want my dogs to be a part of it. Bailey is too little to have a 100 lb. dog on top of her, and Remy has arthritis and is not as strong in his hind legs.
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And this dobie was not the only one. There were 2 or 3 other dogs that kept trying to hump Bailey too. If I didn't know better, I would think she were in heat.
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What is the appropriate dog-owner etiquette in a situation like this? I would not feel comfortable correcting someone else's dog, but what do I do when Bailey is trying to hide behind me and a dog is trying to mount her?
The owner WAS trying to control his dog, but couldn't be right there every time.

I admit, once I had to laugh. This dobie was quite the Cassanova.
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He even tried a little doggie foreplay. He walked up to Bailey, licked her ear and her neck, then tried to get some.

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Linda
Remy -DOB 6/2/92; white male w/brindle patches;
Bailey - DOB 10/16/99; flashy brindle female
Shannon - 1992?-12/7/99 Flashy fawn; We miss her!

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 07-27-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Linda (edited 07-27-2000).]
 
C

cindy

Guest
Linda, Im not sure how I would handle this, especially with Remeys arthritis, he really could get hurt.
Also Im really suprised that this did not cause a fight between some dogs, because my understanding is that its a "dominance" issue
But I think I would take the dog by the collar and tell it "no",
Cindy

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cindy corl
Lacie f-flashy brindle with natural ears 6-17-99
 

MarinaS

Boxer Insane
Linda - is Bailey spayed? If not and she is big enough other dogs may smell heat 'coming soon'. It always happens with Tina - even when she is not bleeding yet, approximately 3-2 weeks before heat, male dogs start showing great attention to her. Anyway, the problem may just be in this dobie. What I know - try not to step between your dog and the other one in this situation - he can attack you. I usually say NO! in a very loud voice to the male dogs 'pesting' to Tina. A trained dog would usually listen to this command even if it's not an owner to say that. Unfortunately it doesn't work 100%
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I guess there's not much you could do, but I will tell you that had it gone on without interuption/interferance from you, Bailey would have gotten tired of it eventually and probably growled or snaped at that dog. I had this same thing happen to me when Pharaoh was younger...another male kept trying to hump him. I just decided to keep Pharaoh away from that dog going forward.
Jennifer
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Eva

Boxer Booster
Someone's dog tried to to that to Roxy on or 1st trip to the dog park. I am very protective of my kids, so I took action. I yelled "NO" at the dog, which did not work, so I pulled him off. I didn't know who its owner was, and no one was taking any action to control him. But as I was pulling the dog of, the owner, who had apparently been standing right there, spoke up. "I'll get him" she said. Well, too late! I was the one who got the dog off of Roxy. I was very mad! If Roxy had not been spayed and I had been planning to breed her, this incident would have ruined those plans. And the owner didn't even say sorry. Roxy just stayed by me the rest of the time we were at the park, and I don't blame her. Meanwhile, the owner continued to let her dog run lose, and was not watching him. I had to be on my guard for him, cuz he would try to get to Roxy again. I was very upset of the owner's lack of concern, and I would continue to handle this situation in the same manner again if the owner is not really making any effort. And to me, just yelling at your dog from across the dog park is not a real effort to stop that behavior.

Eva

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**VERY PROUD MAMA OF**
Roxy Ember Gitzes - Adopted at 7/99, 1 1/2 years old, female, fawn, natural ears

Kaiser Joe Gitzes - rescued from a shelter 7/00, 6 years old, male, fawn, cropped ears
 
B

Badassboxer

Guest
Linda, I just posted a message and the responses I got were mostly that the people shouldn't let their dogs do this (it seems we need to post a dogettiquet (sp?) board up at our dog parks! Because it is rather gross. I kiss Debo everywhere and after my last dog park episode, I didn't even want to touch him until he had a bath!

Someone suggested that I carry a squirt bottle!! I could see me running after that pit with a squirt bottle!!! Hee-hee!

I think in your situation with your dog's arthritis, correction of someone else's dog would be fine. If they have a problem with it, you could explain.

I know what you mean though!
 

nanabear

Banned
I know how you feel, when you're in the park with your *kid* (skin OR fur) you don't like to have to correct someone else's. But I would have no qualms about doing it, if after the other owner *seeing* it, did nothing more than yell from a distance.
Of course, getting physical with a Dobie is not to be taken lightly!
 

Linda

Boxer Insane
I think I ought to clarify a couple things.

Bailey IS spayed, so that is NOT the issue.

And, in my opinion, the doberman's owner WAS doing all he could to stop the behavior. The problem was that he couldn't possibly be right next to his dog 100% of the time. When he saw it happening and he wasn't next to his dog, he would yell at him and come over.
My question was, what should I do when I'm standing next to the dogs and the owner is not.
Thanks for all your input. It's made me feel less like a bitch for feeling like I did.
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Krikkit

Boxer Insane
Hi Linda, I would not have been overly impresssed with this behaviour either
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It would be better if the Dobie was on a lead and diverted from this for everyone's sake. At least the owner is 'trying' I guesss...

I posted the below before (long - sorry), it was a reply by Jean Donaldson to a humping question at her website here: http://www.lasardogs.com
Maybe you could speak to the owner about his dog next time you see them?

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I understand your squeamishness about mounting. It's a behavior that most people are uncomfortable witnessing, with the exception of breeders! I also take your point that it compromises your recall. There a few things that may help you in your predicament.

Firstly, recognize that, in the context you describe, there may not be any social significance to her mounting other dogs. In other words, there isn't always a "big" reason to motor patterns performed out of context. It is unlikely that she is trying to have sex with or express dominance towards these other dogs (as armchair ethologists in the park have probably suggested). She is excited, having a good time and out pops the behavior. No harbinger of bad news vis-a-vis her temperament, hormones or social skills necessarily.

This also makes it easier game for modification, which is what you're after. You have a few choices, modification-wise. You can try any combination of :

redirection (counter-commanding),
punishment,
shaping the absence, or
putting it on cue.


Redirection is getting her to "switch gears" to a mutually exclusive behavior when she gets in the mood. By now you probably have an idea of the precursors: a certain time interval spent wrestling, perhaps a certain style to the wrestling, perhaps certain dogs, anything that tips you off that mounting is imminent. Before she mounts, obtain and reward another behavior, the gear-switcher. Try calling her and doing a two or three trick sequence for a really coveted, rarely given reward. Then send her back to play, always vigilant to interrupt again if she seems to be winding up again. When the mounting behavior gets rusty from disuse, you can relax your supervision.

Punishment would be supplying a consequence after she starts. I don't recommend aversives but would entertain reward removal: "you're history, rude dog!" and escort her from the dog area for a couple of minutes' penalty as soon as she starts. You could have a "three strikes and you're out" rule, i.e. march her home on the third penalty she receives on any given day. Dogs are very good at learning these kinds of contingencies. This is a beefier consequence than the one you've already tried (verbal reprimand).

Shaping the absence is an under-used and powerful technique. It is simply noticing and rewarding Maggie when she doesn't mount, given opportunity. We are all guilty of ignoring some of the best behavior in our dogs. What's tricky about shaping the absence is the psychological hurdle for the trainer: that the dog won't immediately "know" what the reward is for. In fact, it is not necessary for any subject to "know" what reinforcement is for in order for conditioning to take place.

In this case, sometimes it will look like you are rewarding her for playing with a dog (without mounting), sometimes it will look like you are rewarding her for disengaging in playing with a dog (without mounting), sometimes it will look like you are rewarding her for switching to playing with another dog (without mounting), sometimes it will look like you are rewarding her for ignoring a dog (without mounting), for checking in with you (without mounting), for telling off a dog (without mounting) etc. There is one common denominator (without mounting). The power of trend. No instant pudding but huge dents in behavior over time. Put it this way: you're going to the park anyway; may as well reward non-instances for the heck of it.

Mounting is one of those behaviors which goes nicely onto a cue. If you can classically condition her mounting to a verbal command and follow up the commanded mounts with extrinsic rewards (and follow up the non-commanded mounts with nothing or even reward removal if you are combining techniques), you are on to something. Control. What dog trainers love best. It's almost as though the new cue (your command) takes over as trigger from the old cue (intense wrestling).

This is like meeting the dog half-way. "Okay, I recognize you enjoy mounting, but please do it only when I tell you to" is a deal dogs find easier to live with than "never do this enjoyable behavior." This kind of deal-cutting or channelling also works well with compulsive predatory behavior (El Diablo attacks the vacuum only when told and after a period of quietly waiting, poised - she gets a delayed attack command consequence for premature attacks) and pulling on leash ("walk nicely for X distance and I'll then tell you to "mush" for a bit").

To condition, instead of redirecting when you notice precursors, give your command and then, when she mounts, praise (or click) and reward. Or, if this seems a little bizarre for the park crowd to witness, try to get her to mount your leg or some consenting dog in another context so you have opportunities to supply your cue and reward. You need plenty of pairings to make the association (>40). Then you can start oscillating commanded/rewarded mounts with uncommanded/unrewarded ones and watch the uncommanded ones die a slow death. Plus you get a neat, if twisted, trick (my command for El Diablo to hump my leg is "darling, we're not doing that now...").

If it is highly resistant to a well-executed assault with these kinds of techniques and becomes more frequent and intense, the next step would be to have her hormones checked out.
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