Truth about albino dobermans

[Daeiras]

Hi everyone,

I'm new here but I noticed the albino doberman post and had to let everyone in on the truth. I'll post on the introductions later.

A few months ago I came across what seems to me to be an on-line puppy mill. (They breed probably 20 different breeds - and try to make the small breeds smaller, that's ethical huh!) Anyway they had "white dobermans." I'd never heard of such a thing so I started researching it throughout the internet. There are two schools of thought. First, I went to the same site that was posted on the "albino doberman" post here. They seem to make a good case. Then I went to another that was against the white doberman (breeding, that is.) I can't remember where, I'll look for it and let you know, in case anyone is interested. First, true albino's DO have blue eyes. Think of albino people...blue eyes. Second I don't believe it does come from two blues. Albinism is a recessive gene and both parents need to have the gene.

All albino dobermans come from (theoretically - they say) one albino back in the 50's (I think it was the 50's) It took a while but the breed club noticed that these dogs had A LOT of problems: light sensitivity (extreme); dominance, or general behavior problems and other internal things I believe. So anyway, any desendant (sp?) of this one dog has a registration number marked with a Z in front so people know. They are trying really hard to get rid of the gene. The reputable breeders will not breed a dobie with a Z registration number, but there are the people who breed and sell albinos as "rare" to make a buck .

The difference between the white boxer and the white doberman is that MAYBE the white boxer is deaf but MAYBE the albino doberman is deaf, blind, light sensitive, mentally unbalanced, and/or generally unhealthy. Besides that, even if not, he could pass it on.

I also found out about the White German Shepard Dog. Just white, like any normally white dog. The reason that they don't allow the color is because back in the 60's (I think) the white dogs started to dilute the original color so they were forced to disallow it. The White lovers are starting a new breed, the White Shepard.

In my opinion, the white doberman has it worse because it has more health prob's and it could be avoided. Sorry to write such a long post but I like to be informed and wanted to tell you all what I've heard. I'm not an expert to say the least, but I checked out both sides and unfortunately, the against side won.

Thanks for reading.

Tiffany

[JulieM]

I'm new here but I noticed the albino doberman post and had to let everyone in on the truth. I'll post on the introductions later.

Welcome.

Can I ask which post you're talking about, so I know what you feel is untrue?

First, true albino's DO have blue eyes. Think of albino people...blue eyes.

Albino people have pink (reddish) eyes. Actually there is no pigmentation in the eyes, the reddish/pink color is actually the color of the blood vessels behind the eyes.

This site goes over that a bit (FAQ #2):
http://www.tdh.state.tx.us/genetics/faq.htm

Second I don't believe it does come from two blues. Albinism is a recessive gene and both parents need to have the gene.

Are you talking about two blue Dobermans or two albino Dobes iwth blue eyes? Yes, albinism is recessive and both parents must carry one copy of the gene to produce it - but by necessity an albino carries two copies of the gene so, bred to another albino, will always produce albinos.

All albino dobermans come from (theoretically - they say) one albino back in the 50's (I think it was the 50's) It took a while but the breed club noticed that these dogs had A LOT of problems: light sensitivity (extreme); dominance, or general behavior problems and other internal things I believe. So anyway, any desendant (sp?) of this one dog has a registration number marked with a Z in front so people know.

Here is the information from the DPCA (Doberman Pinscher Club of America) website:

In November 1976, a mutation occurred with the whelping of a cream colored Doberman.

Her sire, dam, and litter-mates were normal colored black and tans. She had pale blue eyes, pink nose, eye rims, pads and membranes. Where tan markings would be they were Albino.

She was bred to a dominant black male, producing 14 black and tan pups. A male and female were kept and all ran loose. Her son sired her next litter, which contained 2 Albino males. He was also bred to his sister and her litter contained 2 Albino bitches. Later, these Albinos were bred together producing all Albinos.

The DPCA Albino Committee page is here: http://www.dpca.org/ac.html

The difference between the white boxer and the white doberman is that MAYBE the white boxer is deaf but MAYBE the albino doberman is deaf, blind, light sensitive, mentally unbalanced, and/or generally unhealthy. Besides that, even if not, he could pass it on.

The significant difference is that white Boxers are not albinos, and white Dobermans are. To recycle a past post of mine from one of the discussions:

White Dobermans are tyrosinase-positive albinos, or "partial albinos". Partial albinos often have some coat pigmentation. And even some "true albinos" (tyrosinase-negative) have blue eyes. The white coloring is still caused by albinism, and not an extreme marking pattern as in the Boxer or Greyhound.

More to the point, the DPCA has done extensive research, breeding trials, and surveying of white Dobermans and has found significant evidence of health and temperament problems associated with the albino trait.

Please visit this site http://www.geocities.com/~amazondoc/albinism/ for an *extremely* thorough discussion of albinism, in Dobermans specifically and mammals in general.

I haven't looked into White Shepherds (they are their own UKC breed now), but it would seem that there is agreement that they are not albino.

[Daeiras]

Hi Julie,

I may have been wrong about the eyes, its what I've heard. Really I just wanted to make sure people understood that its a sad thing that these dobes are being bred all in the name of money.

When I said "two blues" I was refering to one of the posts on the thread that said that albino dobes come from two blue colored dobes. It does not come from two blues, it comes from two dobes with the recessive gene whether they are white or not.

I can't say that anything was untrue, except for what I just mentioned above, in the 12-27-01 post in "other pets" forum. Just that no one mentioned that it was a recessive disease and its sad that these dogs are being bred. If it happened accidentally every once in a while, then ok, that happens even in humans.

I found where I got my info from. Whitedobes.com I'm not saying its gospel and I'm not saying I did enough research to write a book or anything but its something that I think people should be aware of. If you search the internet "white doberman" and "albino doberman" you will find both sides of the story. As a matter of fact as I was searching for the original site to post here, I found another one on the opposite side that I will probably go back and read.

What I posted was what I remembered months after I read it. As a matter of fact I was wrong about the date the original was born...it was the 70's. Thats why I went to get the site, I don't want to give wrong information.

Anyway, thanks for responding with even more info for me. I did mean to say that white dobes are albino and white boxers aren't. Thanks for clarifying for everyone. Honestly I just wanted to make sure that if anyone saw one and decided they wanted one, they would know at least the controversy.

BTW, while I was looking, I ran across Rainbowkennels (?) .com. They sell over 30 breeds. Nice huh. I hope they have at least 30 staff members. One expert for each breed. Fat chance.

Well, sorry for any wrong info. I hope anyone interested will do their own research. I realize the internet is filled with false info so we are kinda on our own to sift through it and come to our own conclusions.

Tiffany

[JulieM]

Thanks, Tiffany, I hadn't seen that thread

The pro-white Dobe people will say that since the whites have blue eyes, they are not albinos. However, the DPCA and science says that they are, in fact, albino, blue eyes and all.

You are absolutely right about the inheritance, any color Dobe can pass on the albino gene if it carries it. You are also absolutely right that it is sad that these dogs are being bred - and, not only that, are often being sold as "rare" for 2x as much as a colored Dobe.

Whitedobes.com is the geocities site from my earlier post - I didn't realize she had a redirect, that's much easier to remember, thanks! This is a fantastic site - Ione has done an excellent job of researching and explaining the facts behind the various statements made about white Dobes. (She provides references, too.) I strongly recommend you scroll (on the left side) down to "Are breeders of Albino Dobermans advertising honestly?" - it's extremely educational. To borrow from a movie critic, "If you visit on white Dobe site this year, make it this one."

I learned about white Dobermans when there was an ad in our Sunday paper for "rare" ones. Guessing this was probably the same as a "rare" white Boxer, I did some surfing to see what I can see. What stood out for me was that, along with making claims that white Dobes are more prone to health problems, the DPCA actually did test breedings and researched the issue - they were not relying on legend and hearsay, they actually gathered their own data. Astounding.

I could go on and on but, since you're new, I'll spare you

[Daeiras]

You could go on and on? I don't mind. I could go on and on about dog issues period.

When I read about the white boxer, it saddened me that they were "culled" (it was used in the euthanasia context) Then I surfed more and found out some were advertising them as "rare" which, according to the clubs is unethical. Then I saw the "rare" white dobe and searched around about that. So, so sad. Then I looked up the White Shephard and found out about the dilution. Somehow, the pro-White Shephard people don't understand why they are not allowed in the German Shephard dog standard. It makes me wonder if these people do any research on the history of their breed at all if I found the (perfectly understandable) reason so quickly (it took about 10 minutes.) I'm not judging, I am by no means an expert, I'm just wondering.

BTW, I went to the rainbowkennels site. They explain right on the site that they used to sell their puppies to pet stores. Nice, huh.

Anyway, ramble if you want, I dont' mind.